1971 240Z - to cut or not to cut? That is the question.

As an investment: Resto-mod or JDM

  • Update the stuff that matters and won't hurt the value - Restomod

    Votes: 10 90.9%
  • Forget the value - Go crazy, go JDM

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • JDM can still be a good investment - if done right

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    11

Speedtripper

Forum User
Howzit to all my brothers (and sisters) in Datsunland.

I am based in South Africa, but will be returning to the UK with my 240z. Over the last 10 years it has been pushed around my garage over and over, while receiving a number of updates while keeping it's mainly stock appearance. (Subtle upgrades such as coil-overs, 4 wheel disc brakes and ITBs).

A few years back I ordered a set of 17" Rota RBRs (Staggered -11, -19 if memory serves me) and a set of fender flairs.

I've now reached a crossroad.... bearing in mind I want to bring the car to the UK, do I cut the body and go for a JDM look or stick with a more "Resto Mod" look (upgraded mechanicals).

The car is totally stock inside. Right down to the original radio. No sunroof, or speaker holes in door cards. Just gone around the clock at 100 000km. (62 000 miles).

With the 240Z prices going through the roof (especially for RHD) I now need to think with my head. The last thing I need is to be told that the car would have been worth xxxx more if I hadn't chopped the arches for flares.

Asking for advice from any of the UK brethren. I may be wrong, but my gut feeling is that a stock looking car might be worth more especially when coming to let it go?
 

niroshann

Club Member
I had a similar dilemma but on a less valuable 280zx. Keep an original car unmodified and with matching numbers original engine for future value (Assuming a 280zx would be reasonably valuable in 10 years time) or restomod to my liking. I went with the latter as it was my car and I wanted to enjoy it now. You can get various opinions but agree with datsfun. What do you want from it?
 

uk66fastback

Club Member
Is it rusty or solid? More solid than rusty I presume from that climate. Future value shouldn't be the most important item on the list when considering a car's future but if I were you I'd keep the inside as is and then maybe restomod the rest a bit (well, I wouldn't, I'd keep it stock on the outside as well but that wasn't in your poll choices).
 

Speedtripper

Forum User
Thanks to everyone for their input! It is interesting to see the different responses based on location. I'll try touch on all the comments below.

The car is solid as you might expect from South Africa and is a matching number car. (HS3001108). (1971, but interestingly enough comes with fibreglass headlight buckets from the factory). Another "interesting" fact is that the car was order by a doctor in 1970. The car was a special import into South Africa and the red tape was staggering. The dealearship had to write a letter of "motivation" to the Government "powers that be" to get it brought in. It took nearly a year. He ordered a 1970 model but got a '71'. The doctor died and left it in his estate. It still has the 2 red flashing lights set behind the grill which he used when on an "emergency". I think I'll keep those functional. ;)

I hear you Datsfun.... my original intention was to go wild. Let's call it "US-JDM".... flares, RB, rocket-launcher etc, etc. It was a no-brainer!! I have spent so much time on YT and most of the videos are from the States so it easy to be influenced in that way. However when turning to the UK scene I see that much fewer are chopped and flared etc. I'm not sure if this is down to choice, or perhaps people don't have the garage space to work on cars? A mate in the UK has a single car garage and it is filled with junk, so even a spark plug change is done on the street.

You are right Albrecht... 1969 JDM is not the same as what we now call JDM. It's now more of a reference to what's happening in the modified Japanese scene. (And those guys seem to have the balance just right. Love the way that they stick with the L-series). I still want to fiddle with the car so I'm edging to a retromod, where I can still upgrade but keep it looking reasonably stock. Mike I like your thinking, but might have to go with at least a front spoiler (have already purchased one to replace the current one in my thumbnail).

Having said all this, I am halfway through a 3.4 stroker build using the taller diesel block. I'd like to put it in the car to really maximise the ITB setup. Sure it's not an RB... but it does have an advantage by being virtually identical to the current lump so looks like it belongs there. I guess I'll just have to stick the old motor in a crate in case the "matching numbers" thing becomes a deal-breaker down the line.

I will be watching the poll with interest. At the moment it seems like a Restomod is the choice.
 

jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
Thanks to everyone for their input! It is interesting to see the different responses based on location. I'll try touch on all the comments below.

The car is solid as you might expect from South Africa and is a matching number car. (HS3001108). (1971, but interestingly enough comes with fibreglass headlight buckets from the factory). Another "interesting" fact is that the car was order by a doctor in 1970. The car was a special import into South Africa and the red tape was staggering. The dealearship had to write a letter of "motivation" to the Government "powers that be" to get it brought in. It took nearly a year. He ordered a 1970 model but got a '71'. The doctor died and left it in his estate. It still has the 2 red flashing lights set behind the grill which he used when on an "emergency". I think I'll keep those functional. ;)

I hear you Datsfun.... my original intention was to go wild. Let's call it "US-JDM".... flares, RB, rocket-launcher etc, etc. It was a no-brainer!! I have spent so much time on YT and most of the videos are from the States so it easy to be influenced in that way. However when turning to the UK scene I see that much fewer are chopped and flared etc. I'm not sure if this is down to choice, or perhaps people don't have the garage space to work on cars? A mate in the UK has a single car garage and it is filled with junk, so even a spark plug change is done on the street.

You are right Albrecht... 1969 JDM is not the same as what we now call JDM. It's now more of a reference to what's happening in the modified Japanese scene. (And those guys seem to have the balance just right. Love the way that they stick with the L-series). I still want to fiddle with the car so I'm edging to a retromod, where I can still upgrade but keep it looking reasonably stock. Mike I like your thinking, but might have to go with at least a front spoiler (have already purchased one to replace the current one in my thumbnail).

Having said all this, I am halfway through a 3.4 stroker build using the taller diesel block. I'd like to put it in the car to really maximise the ITB setup. Sure it's not an RB... but it does have an advantage by being virtually identical to the current lump so looks like it belongs there. I guess I'll just have to stick the old motor in a crate in case the "matching numbers" thing becomes a deal-breaker down the line.

I will be watching the poll with interest. At the moment it seems like a Restomod is the choice.
You can't bring it to the UK with a diesel block. I want to be the only one.
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Let's see some pics. I think you already know what you are going to do with it and just playing games. Sell it to someone here and modify a less rare car.
 

AD240Z

Club Member
Let's see some pics. I think you already know what you are going to do with it and just playing games. Sell it to someone here and modify a less rare car.

I was going to say something similar . I do like a car with a bit of history / a story .... like the emergency lights .
 

uk66fastback

Club Member
Rob's right on the money I think and once you start resto-modding it (which it sounds like you will), the matching numbers stuff with the block goes out the window so leave it in SA.
 

Albrecht

Well-Known Forum User
(1971, but interestingly enough comes with fibreglass headlight buckets from the factory).

This is not really unusual. The FRP headlamp surrounds were used until the end of June 1972.

The car was a special import into South Africa and the red tape was staggering.

I don't know what route he chose to buy and import the car, but the South African market had a small supply of official imports from roughly around the middle of 1970 onwards, and Nissan SA had very good connections with Nissan Japan.

You are right Albrecht... 1969 JDM is not the same as what we now call JDM. It's now more of a reference to what's happening in the modified Japanese scene.

I think the term 'JDM' has - in some contexts - become something quite divorced from its original meaning. So much so that it has become almost meaningless. The 'Americanization' of the term is contradictory and nonsensical. It originally applied to factory stock cars that were particular to the Japanese market, not Japanese 'scene' modified cars. So when you ask people to make a choice between 'JDM' and something else, it becomes a how long is a piece of string type question. The term 'JDM' is now a moveable feast.

Cutting original factory sheetmetal - especially in the rear arches/quarters - is pretty much a one-way street. Once you've done it, it's done. It's like getting a tattoo, or choosing a haircut that you have to wear for the rest of your life. Maybe not such a big thing if the rear arches were rotten, but if they are in good condition it would be a pity to lose them.

If anything I'd say there's now a definite trend towards not fitting generic copy-of-copy overfenders to cars that never originally had them, and the simple formula of good wheel/tyre choice and the 'sweet spot' ride height is a big part of that. A good clean - almost bone stock - body with that transforming magic combo of wheels/tyres/ride height ('stance') is a fool-proof choice with longevity. Performance modifications under the skin can be as radical as you want, as long as they are well thought-through, well engineered and work in combination as a package.

Agreed, I'd - at least - keep hold of the car's original engine block, if not the complete unit. Wrap it up and store it. It might or might not matter to a future owner, but at the very least it is good karma to keep it with the car so that somebody else can make that choice further down the line.
 

Speedtripper

Forum User
92mm-stroker 018.jpg 92mm-stroker 009.jpg 92mm-stroker 020.jpg
You can't bring it to the UK with a diesel block. I want to be the only one.

:) I fear that I have spent too much money on it to not finish it. Otherwise it will be just a pile of bits in a box. Would be interested to hear about your build.

Don't have many pictures at hand, but to summerise, the crank is a diesel crank welded and ground offset. Pin is 50mm in diameter. Uses a 6 inch (149.86mm) rod from an Mitsubishi 4G63. Pistons are standard 89mm KA24E with the tops shaved .7mm to get rid of the slight dish. Final displacement: 92mm x 89mm = 3434.07cc

I made up a crude "crank simulator" to see what the limit would be. As it turns out the 92mm throw (with reduced pin size) was no problem.
 
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Speedtripper

Forum User
jeff-car-stuff 023.jpg jeff-240z.jpg jeff-car-stuff 036.jpg retirement-village 243.jpg 240z-engine 002.jpg 20181222_IMG_0760.JPG 20181226_IMG_0802.JPG 20181222_IMG_0764.JPG 20200725_IMG_3770.JPG jeff-car-stuff 023.jpg jeff-240z.jpg jeff-car-stuff 036.jpg retirement-village 243.jpg 240z-engine 002.jpg 20181222_IMG_0760.JPG 20181226_IMG_0802.JPG 20181222_IMG_0764.JPG 20200725_IMG_3770.JPG
Let's see some pics. I think you already know what you are going to do with it and just playing games. Sell it to someone here and modify a less rare car.

You guys are killing me! My post is a genuine "cry for help". I have already taken the first step and drilled holes to mount the fenders. I'll try attach some pics. The wheels are on... but getting the grinder out is a step of no return. I'm prepared to forfeit the wheels and tyres over making a mistake I will regret. I have a rotisserie so the plan is for a full rebuild. I have all the rubber seals I need and the suspension is already done. Welding up a bunch of riv-nut holes will not be an issue. Selling to buy another to modify would not be an option. I honestly think that when I am through with this one, I'll be looking to a totally different project. Not interested in a left-hooker, and doubt there are many rust-free RHD ones left in the UK. There is no option to sell it here in SA. Would be lucky to get 10K sterling (Sorry, can't find the pound symbol).
 
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Speedtripper

Forum User
This is not really unusual. The FRP headlamp surrounds were used until the end of June 1972.



I don't know what route he chose to buy and import the car, but the South African market had a small supply of official imports from roughly around the middle of 1970 onwards, and Nissan SA had very good connections with Nissan Japan.



I think the term 'JDM' has - in some contexts - become something quite divorced from its original meaning. So much so that it has become almost meaningless. The 'Americanization' of the term is contradictory and nonsensical. It originally applied to factory stock cars that were particular to the Japanese market, not Japanese 'scene' modified cars. So when you ask people to make a choice between 'JDM' and something else, it becomes a how long is a piece of string type question. The term 'JDM' is now a moveable feast.

Cutting original factory sheetmetal - especially in the rear arches/quarters - is pretty much a one-way street. Once you've done it, it's done. It's like getting a tattoo, or choosing a haircut that you have to wear for the rest of your life. Maybe not such a big thing if the rear arches were rotten, but if they are in good condition it would be a pity to lose them.

If anything I'd say there's now a definite trend towards not fitting generic copy-of-copy overfenders to cars that never originally had them, and the simple formula of good wheel/tyre choice and the 'sweet spot' ride height is a big part of that. A good clean - almost bone stock - body with that transforming magic combo of wheels/tyres/ride height ('stance') is a fool-proof choice with longevity. Performance modifications under the skin can be as radical as you want, as long as they are well thought-through, well engineered and work in combination as a package.

Agreed, I'd - at least - keep hold of the car's original engine block, if not the complete unit. Wrap it up and store it. It might or might not matter to a future owner, but at the very least it is good karma to keep it with the car so that somebody else can make that choice further down the line.



Albrecht, you clearly know more about this than me. What I do know is that it was purchased through a dealer in Pietermatizburg (about 100ks / 60 miles inland from Durban). The dealer had to write a "motivational letter" to get it imported. I have the letter in a draw somewhere. Interesting thing I was told is that the importer (Doctor) asked about air-conditioning. He said he would opt for it if it didn't cost more than R300 (That's about 13 pounds at the current exchange rate. (Haven't things changed!!). Needless to say it was going to cost more than that, so unfortunately no factory air-con. He did have the commonsense to go with the 5-speed box. Given the same choice I would have done the same.

As far as I am aware there are less than 6 240z currently on the road here in SA. I have never seen another one, even at local shows. Most people don't even know what it is here . There are a few 260Z 2+2s (also never seen one on the road). We never got the 280Z. The Z car only really became known here with the arrival of the 280ZX (2+2). Even they are rare now and seldom seen.
 

uk66fastback

Club Member
That car looks so good without those flare things on the arches!

£10k? It'd make £20k+ AS IS over here probably ... even more most likely, being RHD.
 

jonbills

Membership Secretary
Site Administrator
View attachment 41946 View attachment 41947 View attachment 41948

:) I fear that I have spent too much money on it to not finish it. Otherwise it will be just a pile of bits in a box. Would be interested to hear about your build.

Don't have many pictures at hand, but to summerise, the crank is a diesel crank welded and ground offset. Pin is 50mm in diameter. Uses a 6 inch (149.86mm) rod from an Mitsubishi 4G63. Pistons are standard 89mm KA24E with the tops shaved .7mm to get rid of the slight dish. Final displacement: 92mm x 89mm = 3434.07cc

I made up a crude "crank simulator" to see what the limit would be. As it turns out the 92mm throw (with reduced pin size) was no problem.
That's going to be quite something. I remember an SA guy posted about a V57 build on hybridz.org - was it you? it was part of my inspiration.
My build (so far) is here: https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/ld32-engine-build.26902/
It's "only" 3.18 with 84.27 X 89.5.
 

Mr Tenno

Digital Officer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Selling to buy another to modify would not be an option. I honestly think that when I am through with this one, I'll be looking to a totally different project.

Then I'd say just leave it as-is, flip it once you arrive and move onto the next project. I and I'm sure other members would offer you money right now for the un-cut car. Once that step is taken, for me at least, the appeal of the car drastically drops.


That car looks so good without those flare things on the arches!
Totally agree.
 
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