Thank you - it makes sense now. I had totally missed the point [emoji106]
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Nissan Rally Wheels
- Thread starter SeanDezart
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Thank you - it makes sense now. I had totally missed the point [emoji106]
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Good job you haven't been asking any questions about certification then, isn't it?
Oh....
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
Ian Patmore
Well-Known Forum User
Right....I did think we (as a S30 club) would know what is what by now....
From left (below), a Kobe Seiko Z432 wheel ( a real one, I got from Portugal), a Kobe Seiko Maglloy wheel (but you don't need to know that for this discussion [but it saves the questions]), and copy (15") of the wheels from the Works cars (Rally wheel). When you start looking, the overall design at a quick glance are the same, but when you look closer, they differ greatly.
Here is an over head shot of what a Rally wheel design looks like (this is the 15"replica one, so off-set is slightly different, but the overall design is the same as Kobe's);
And here is what the M-speed Z432 style wheel looks like (sorry about photo);
I have had the M-speed Z432 style wheel for a couple of years, as finding the other pair of Maglloy's I require is proving VERY difficult.
They are 5.5J Franky. I am pretty sure the original, Kobe Seiko Z432 wheel was also 5.5J. Kobe Z432 wheel is listed in my parts microfiche covering the HS30U and RS30U (and its derivitives) as an option, so I take it we (Europe [excluding Portugal, as it was standard]) we could have had them fitted when ordered (well, in theory...) Alan, please clarify anything here if blantly wrong.
I think the Kobe Seiko Rally wheel, and the M-speed style Rally wheel are 7J.
The 15" replica Rally wheel, is the only one certified, as some wheels were sacrificed in the very small production run (and passed with flying colours).
Now, look at each wheel, and you see what the differences are, and you may know what wheel you are talking about. I think its very important to talk say when discussing this "range" of wheels, to make sure to note whether its Kobe, or whatever replica manufacturer made what.
From left (below), a Kobe Seiko Z432 wheel ( a real one, I got from Portugal), a Kobe Seiko Maglloy wheel (but you don't need to know that for this discussion [but it saves the questions]), and copy (15") of the wheels from the Works cars (Rally wheel). When you start looking, the overall design at a quick glance are the same, but when you look closer, they differ greatly.
Here is an over head shot of what a Rally wheel design looks like (this is the 15"replica one, so off-set is slightly different, but the overall design is the same as Kobe's);
And here is what the M-speed Z432 style wheel looks like (sorry about photo);
I have had the M-speed Z432 style wheel for a couple of years, as finding the other pair of Maglloy's I require is proving VERY difficult.
They are 5.5J Franky. I am pretty sure the original, Kobe Seiko Z432 wheel was also 5.5J. Kobe Z432 wheel is listed in my parts microfiche covering the HS30U and RS30U (and its derivitives) as an option, so I take it we (Europe [excluding Portugal, as it was standard]) we could have had them fitted when ordered (well, in theory...) Alan, please clarify anything here if blantly wrong.
I think the Kobe Seiko Rally wheel, and the M-speed style Rally wheel are 7J.
The 15" replica Rally wheel, is the only one certified, as some wheels were sacrificed in the very small production run (and passed with flying colours).
Now, look at each wheel, and you see what the differences are, and you may know what wheel you are talking about. I think its very important to talk say when discussing this "range" of wheels, to make sure to note whether its Kobe, or whatever replica manufacturer made what.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Nice one Ian although your first photo is tiny - hard to determine any detail differences.
Thanks for the info, so the 'open-spoked' rally wheel was never an option but the Z432/Portugeuse DM 'closed' spoke wheel was (in theory at least) ?
ps I thought that this club was for ALL the cars, not just S30s
Thanks for the info, so the 'open-spoked' rally wheel was never an option but the Z432/Portugeuse DM 'closed' spoke wheel was (in theory at least) ?
ps I thought that this club was for ALL the cars, not just S30s
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
As was made clear - I thought - in post #8 of this thread.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Nope, you 'spoke'
of works wheels without making it clear (to me at least) and insufficiently for Ian to consider it worthwhile taking the time to post, which were the works wheels and which were not. Anyone might assume that the works (circuit) wheels were larger when, in fact, they're the tinner 5.5'' ones.Thanks again Ian.....and Alan for having started the subject.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Nope, you 'spoke'
So you STILL don't get it the right way round?
For heaven's sake, look at photos of the Works rally cars (and the works 432-R you added the photo of in post #11 of this thread) and look at photos of a stock 432 or the Portuguese market cars. It is EASY to see the difference, and therefore easy to work out that the Works 'Rally mag' was 7J and the the 432 wheel was 5.5J.
Like I keep saying, TWO different designs and TWO different situations.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
And just to add to the confusion Sean, outside the s30 bubble
Your "Nissan Rally" wheels are Nissan 'Datsun Rally' wheels.
datsfun
Club Member
Agreed- indeed that is what is cast on the wheel.
However in my experience, amonsgt the rallying crowd when someone mentions Nissan Rally wheels , the first thing that comes to mind is not the Kobe Seiko wheel.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
So you STILL don't get it the right way round?
For heaven's sake, look at photos of the Works rally cars (and the works 432-R you added the photo of in post #11 of this thread) and look at photos of a stock 432 or the Portuguese market cars. It is EASY to see the difference, and therefore easy to work out that the Works 'Rally mag' was 7J and the the 432 wheel was 5.5J.
Ok, got it - finally.
Like I keep saying, TWO different designs and TWO different situations.
So, the Works 'rally' mag was used more on circuits than rallies ? Why call it a 'rally' mag then please ?
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
Perhaps they are in their own "bubble"?
Nissans won the 1970, 1971 and 1973 East African Safari rallies on wheels manufactured by Kobe Seiko. The very first entry in a sanctioned circuit race undertaken by a Nissan S30-series car (in January 1970) did so on wheels manufactured by Kobe Seiko.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
datsfun
Club Member
Lots of bubbles out there.
Indeed. They were also used on the Bluebird 610's international rallies IIRC
The point I was trying the make was that rightly or wrongly in my experience Nissan rally wheels equate to those supplied on the 240Rs and 'Datsun rally wheels' (MAG) are those worn mainly by the works violets in period.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
:Shrug:
And here we are on a Z-dedicated forum, trying to get certain people - themselves involved with these cars for 30+ years - to understand the origins and history of two different wheel designs which are inextricably linked to some of the most significant parts of the S30-series Z's biography.
datsfun
Club Member
Apologies for taking this thread outside the Z scene and introducing more confusion !
Do you know why the Enkei were labelled as Datsun Rally yet they were supplied as a competition part for the Nissan S110 aka the 240Rs.?
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
What hasn't helped is seeing widely reported Z432sfor sale with non-Z432 wheels :
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/nissan/fairlady-z432/1971/674268
https://www.thedrive.com/news/31176...uld-become-the-most-expensive-z-car-ever-sold
And also perhaps not having seen a genuine or even one of the several replicas in person might explain MY confusion and secondly by them being called works 'rally' wheels when I would have expected rally cars to have worn thinner wheels whereas works racers to have worn wider ones.
Thanks all for the patient (and impatient) explications.
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/nissan/fairlady-z432/1971/674268
https://www.thedrive.com/news/31176...uld-become-the-most-expensive-z-car-ever-sold
And also perhaps not having seen a genuine or even one of the several replicas in person might explain MY confusion and secondly by them being called works 'rally' wheels when I would have expected rally cars to have worn thinner wheels whereas works racers to have worn wider ones.
Thanks all for the patient (and impatient) explications.
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