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  #76  
Old 15-12-2017, 11:00 PM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK240 View Post
Was it because of the Bonhams catalogue mix up that it was thought to be an ex-Works car...?
The photos got mixed up in the Bonhams catalogues which probably didn't help, but neither car was an ex-Works 240Z rally car anyway. They just had a conglomeration of various ex-Works parts attached to them...

The problem goes back to Arthur Carter really. He had tried to sell both (actually three...) cars privately over the years without success, and the fact that one of them was actually 'LAL' had kind of been overlooked. Or at least obscured by the "ex-Works rally car" stories, which were - when it comes down to it - pure fantasy. The irony is that 'LAL', a car with a genuine and quite interesting (if not successful) competition history, was hiding in plain sight.

They have a saying in Japan which is quite apt. It translates along the lines of "the darkest place is at the foot of the lighthouse..."
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  #77  
Old 16-12-2017, 10:21 AM
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johnymd johnymd is offline
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To try and simplify an answer for you Rob. I buy things to use. I don’t buy paintings because of who painted them or objects to look at and say x made that. I’m not saying there is anything wrong with it but it’s just not me. If I buy a car it’s because I want to drive and enjoy it. Not to leave in a heated garage hope it goes up in value. If I can’t use and enjoy something then it has no value to me. Maybe if I had the money to buy appreciating objects then I would look at things differently.

In your example above, I would buy the new item as I could use it and it would probably work better.
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'73 240z 1JZ-GTE. Was pretty quick. 11.10@132.5mph
'72 240z RHD (4BOA) Painted and waiting assembly.
'72 240z LHD Silver "Rat look" daily runaround.
'76 280z ExLHD Red v8 Lexus powered restomod.
'74 260z LHD Restomod just started.
'71 240z LHD zg arched. Still in California.

Go to: www.240z.me.uk to checkout the cars.
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  #78  
Old 16-12-2017, 10:47 AM
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Rob Gaskin Rob Gaskin is offline
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Ok guys 'I'm Out' as Alan said because we have gone way off topic here but I started that to try to explain that in my mind old cars need to be old and if possible have 'provenance'. Unlike you John I don't use my Datsuns very much - which is what perhaps influences my feelings.

I need to see an MZR car and it will also be interesting when they come on the secondhand market.
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  #79  
Old 16-12-2017, 11:08 AM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnymd View Post
I buy things to use. I don’t buy paintings because of who painted them or objects to look at and say x made that. If I buy a car it’s because I want to drive and enjoy it. Not to leave in a heated garage hope it goes up in value.

In your example above, I would buy the new item as I could use it and it would probably work better.
My philosophy too and why I wouldn't buy the no.5 (even if I had the money) 'cos I don't like rallying.
I'd buy a works circuit car (again, if I had the money) but not to bragg.
Ultimately it'll be less expensive and more efficient today to build one from scratch or modify one for sale on BAT. But not to speculate on its value, merely for the fun of use.

I wouldn't buy an MZR - too bespoke (I was always attracted to the Zs black cabin for its purity, simplicity, almost '60s than '70s style with the diamond body trim and I'm not a fan of large diameter wheels with low-profile tyres.
One of those cars that're nice to look at....but better in someone elses' garage.
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A new Datsun era !

Sean Dézart
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seanz@wanadoo.fr

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  #80  
Old 16-12-2017, 11:10 AM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Gaskin View Post
but I started that to try to explain that in my mind old cars need to be old and if possible have 'provenance'.
Rob - how did you feel when Nissan USA commissioned a run of new 240Zs ?

What if it happened here in Europe to celebrate the 50yrs ?
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A new Datsun era !

Sean Dézart
(33) 6 14 95 42 17
seanz@wanadoo.fr

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zstor...6789934?ref=hl

Club Datsun-France www.datsun-france.com

I Love Zs.
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  #81  
Old 16-12-2017, 11:40 AM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
Rob - how did you feel when Nissan USA commissioned a run of new 240Zs ?
This never happened.
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  #82  
Old 16-12-2017, 01:31 PM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
This never happened.
I beg your pardon ?
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A new Datsun era !

Sean Dézart
(33) 6 14 95 42 17
seanz@wanadoo.fr

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zstor...6789934?ref=hl

Club Datsun-France www.datsun-france.com

I Love Zs.
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  #83  
Old 16-12-2017, 01:50 PM
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uk66fastback uk66fastback is offline
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They weren't new shells and VINs were they - I thought they were existing cars 'restored' with the very best parts - a search for 'Vintage Z program' throws up a few links ...
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  #84  
Old 16-12-2017, 02:31 PM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Well, we can always spend several posts defining 'new' but the USA cars were as 'new' as the MZR ones : clean shells completely restored from scratch using new or restored to as new condition parts throughout.

Just as someone (not a company for clients) completely restoring a Z today would do and indeed Alan has to his Zs - no ?

I'd prefer a 'new' one and mine will be so.
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A new Datsun era !

Sean Dézart
(33) 6 14 95 42 17
seanz@wanadoo.fr

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zstor...6789934?ref=hl

Club Datsun-France www.datsun-france.com

I Love Zs.
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  #85  
Old 16-12-2017, 05:42 PM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
Well, we can always spend several posts defining 'new'...
No, it only takes one post.

'New' is impossible when it comes to S30-series Zs. You can't make a 'new' one, by definition. The NMC USA 'Vintage Z Program' was just that. Refurbished vintage cars.
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  #86  
Old 16-12-2017, 09:39 PM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Ok so out with the new and in with the refurbished so refurbished is old, as Rob likes....and not new !
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A new Datsun era !

Sean Dézart
(33) 6 14 95 42 17
seanz@wanadoo.fr

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zstor...6789934?ref=hl

Club Datsun-France www.datsun-france.com

I Love Zs.
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