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  #31  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by johnymd View Post
I see an old rally car as very low in value because it's just a poor condition car that had a hard life. I see no value in the fact that it was owned and built by someone well known. It's like buying a painting because it was by someone famous. Overvalued because it by painted by someone. Or an old car that was owned by someone famous. Your not buying the car, your buying an object that was owned by someone and that's the only reason it's expensive. The MZR cars are expensive because of the attention to detail and the striving to take an iconic car and make it "better". The MZR cars of 2 years ago were very nice but not particularly special. They sold for what they were worth but I bet there was no profit in them. In order for MZR to move forward I feel they had to build something special in order to justify the price tag and make their company profitable.

These cars are not for everyone but they are special and way cheaper than the other classic specials out there.
How do you value your wife John against a young pretty girl who has a taste for the expensive life and is soooo modern but you have no memories/experiences with her?

I can understand some of what you are saying but how do you value anything old e.g a WW2 Spitfire with battlescars?

Does your blue car have any value apart from the fact it is blue and has a powerful engine? Does what you have done with it and your memories count for nothing?

I saw that ex Works rally car in 1971 and it made a huge impression - an MZR car cannot do that unless it is for looks alone.

In fact why do you own 240Zs instead of GTRs?
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Last edited by Rob Gaskin; 10-12-2017 at 07:46 PM..
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  #32  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:50 PM
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My wife is special to ME. I can still like a pretty girl for her looks but looks are only a small part of why we settle down with someone.

Forth bridge is getting pretty old so scrap it and build another. I have no personal attachment with it.

My blue car has a high value to me because it was built and evolved entirely by Me. It also give me a lot of fun. The memories count for a lot. If I had bought the blue car already built by someone else then it would have far less value to me in just the same way the old rally car you mention would.

I would never buy a MZR car but admire the workmanship, as I do with many builds on here, and would love to build a similar car for myself.

Why do I own 240z's? I'm surprised you ask but I will tell you. It's because I love them so much and believe there is no better car around that suits me. A GTR is far too expensive for me to afford and I like a car I can build with my own personal touch rather than a car I can just go and buy.

I'm not trying to convince you to look at things my way Rob so don't take it personally. I'm just saying what I feel. We are all allowed to have our own views and the world would be rather boring if we all like the same thing.
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Drives:

'73 240z 1JZ-GTE. Was pretty quick. 11.10@132.5mph
'72 240z RHD (4BOA) Painted and waiting assembly.
'72 240z LHD Silver "Rat look" daily runaround.
'76 280z ExLHD Red v8 Lexus powered restomod.
'74 260z LHD Restomod just started.
'71 240z LHD zg arched. Still in California.

Go to: www.240z.me.uk to checkout the cars.
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  #33  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:53 PM
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Was at car show this year local one and guy called Grant nice guy not in the club he from Sheffield and bought a mzr zed
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  #34  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:01 PM
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Very nice clean looking zed. Just my taste in how to improve on a timeless car.
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Drives:

'73 240z 1JZ-GTE. Was pretty quick. 11.10@132.5mph
'72 240z RHD (4BOA) Painted and waiting assembly.
'72 240z LHD Silver "Rat look" daily runaround.
'76 280z ExLHD Red v8 Lexus powered restomod.
'74 260z LHD Restomod just started.
'71 240z LHD zg arched. Still in California.

Go to: www.240z.me.uk to checkout the cars.
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  #35  
Old 13-12-2017, 11:37 AM
PZ 69 PZ 69 is offline
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For that starting price, I rather have a HS30 or HS30-H, with original matching car and engine.

Can't see why it has jumped from mid 20K to at least 80K in a couple of years.
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  #36  
Old 13-12-2017, 11:58 AM
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A lot of it is the bespoke parts ... I think you could hopefully do some negotiation on what you wanted all over the car ... which might bring the price down. Unless they’re stacked out and snowed under with orders and deposits.
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  #37  
Old 13-12-2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PZ 69 View Post
Can't see why it has jumped from mid 20K to at least 80K in a couple of years.
That probably says more about the quality of cars previous to these new ones.

I'm like John, I wouldn't pay more for one car over another just because someone famous once farted in it going through Eau Rouge.

If I'd wanted anything other than an underdog, under-valued, unknown and under-estimated, I wouldn't have bought and stuck with a 240Z for nearly 30 yrs.

A bit of value won't hurt us, encourage people to take better care of them and become something desirable !
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Sean Dézart
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  #38  
Old 14-12-2017, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Gaskin View Post
Sean, it's not the cost but what the money pays for. I would pay 80k for Kevin Bristow's ex works rally car because it's Datsun not modern bits.
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Originally Posted by johnymd View Post
I see an old rally car as very low in value because it's just a poor condition car that had a hard life. I see no value in the fact that it was owned and built by someone well known....................................
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
.................................

I'm like John, I wouldn't pay more for one car over another just because someone famous once farted in it going through Eau Rouge.................................
How has my comment got twisted so much?

Secondly I don't think John understood exactly which car I was talking about i.e. car number 5 on the 1971 RAC Rally.

http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15145
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  #39  
Old 14-12-2017, 06:45 AM
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Great cars but I wouldn't pay 80k for Kevin's car (either of them) - to do what with ?

imho, a car has to have an end use....which is more than sitting in a vacuum bag waiting to raise in value.
Gotta drive Zs.
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A new Datsun era !

Sean Dézart
(33) 6 14 95 42 17
seanz@wanadoo.fr

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zstor...6789934?ref=hl

Club Datsun-France www.datsun-france.com

I Love Zs.
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  #40  
Old 14-12-2017, 10:19 AM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
Great cars but I wouldn't pay 80k for Kevin's car (either of them) - to do what with ?

imho, a car has to have an end use....which is more than sitting in a vacuum bag waiting to raise in value.
Gotta drive Zs.
What you are writing now doesn't seem to match up with what I often experience from you. Very rarely does a week go by without you asking me some question or other about the Works rally or circuit racing cars, so I always assumed you had an interest in them - even if it was only vicariously. It seems you actually might not.

The figure of £80k GBP for Kevin Bristow's ex-Works '71 RAC Rally car is pure fantasy. Which corner of it will that buy? The last genuine ex-Works 240Z rally car to change hands - a car in need of total restoration - sold for way more than that. Based on what I know from people in Japan who would be interested in owning Kevin's RAC car - and that includes Nissan themselves - I'd put the value easily north of 250k GBP.

You ask "to do what?". WTF? Is this a question from a true car enthusiast? Do people ask the same question about the contents of art galleries and museums? There is a point where such items can become iconic and worthy of preservation, curation and display. It helps us to understand them better, and it helps us to better understand ourselves and the things we have done.

I could say, to do this:



....but it doesn't have to do anything of the sort. It can just be. Do you think places like this are meaningless?



Like it or not, old cars are subject to the same market forces of supply and demand as pretty much anything else. Genuine Fairlady Z432-Rs are changing hands in Japan for astronomical prices these days. I know of two 432-Rs that were recently restored to showroom condition, and the cost to restore each car in Japan would buy you two of the MZR 80k GBP cars. That's where we are at. I don't find it difficult to understand or particularly troubling, other than the fact that a genuine 432-R is now something I will never own because it is out of my financial reach.

Discussing the 'value' of the MZR cars vs their 'cost' is one thing, but bringing the value of pieces of automotive history into the equation is quite another.
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  #41  
Old 14-12-2017, 10:33 AM
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Hi Alan, yes I fully understand that Kevin's car is worth way more than an MZR car but I was trying to make a point. That is where I'd rather put my money than into an MZR car (as stunning as they are).

The rally car is a wonderful piece of history for which I would gladly build a conservatory.
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Last edited by Rob Gaskin; 14-12-2017 at 10:44 AM..
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  #42  
Old 14-12-2017, 11:50 AM
Nigel Brook Nigel Brook is offline
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Is the MZR going to become the new SAMURI ?
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  #43  
Old 14-12-2017, 12:03 PM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Whoah Alan !

Yes, I'm interested in all things 'works' and competition and more so those that aren't USA based - not because I'm against 'them' but more for the (over here) unsung, underestimated and almost scorned upon JD race achievements.

Liking something doesn't infer hating another - merely a preference - ok ?

I love and respect what Kevin has done with No.5, at least as much as his rallying with OMT and I was speaking from again, a personal preference :

I don't like rallying myself - I prefer circuit so even if I could buy his car - I wouldn't use it and in fact based upon the time and money support needed...I couldn't : ipso facto - not a judicious buy for me.

Do you have any news of that ex-works car or did it just disappear into the New World ?

If I had the budget, I'd a have a dedicated track Z but I haven't so a well-sorted road car that can be amused with however on a track occasionally is just right.

But I bet few of MZRs cars will enjoy a track-day...no probs and each to their own.

As for the Zama museum - it must be fabulous and if only Nissan here would make an effort to appreciate and exploit their heritage whether internally or via the passionate owners - I'd be happy man.
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A new Datsun era !

Sean Dézart
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seanz@wanadoo.fr

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zstor...6789934?ref=hl

Club Datsun-France www.datsun-france.com

I Love Zs.
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  #44  
Old 14-12-2017, 12:06 PM
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Rob Gaskin Rob Gaskin is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Brook View Post
Is the MZR going to become the new SAMURI ?
Great minds....

http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28659&page=6 see post Post 90

They would need to successfully race a few first.

They certainly get a very positive reaction from people who have seen them but they would need to do the same during road-testing. No reason why they can't but Samuri's were being compared to the current (on sale) car on which they were based. So different times really.
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  #45  
Old 14-12-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nigel Brook View Post
Is the MZR going to become the new SAMURI ?
I don't think they're remotely similar fish. They want to be the new Singer.
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