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  #61  
Old 23-10-2017, 07:34 PM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
There are no replacement bodyshells available from Nissan anyway, so the 'Heritage 'shell' situation as far as it applies to 'us' is a straw man.
No, I do believe it sets a precedent and is VERY applicable. More later - off to cook and eat now.

Stockdale - VERY sorry to hear that and extremely shocked that a professionaly would, in effect, steal your car !

But now, where does that leave you and yours if your current car had to be sold ?
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  #62  
Old 23-10-2017, 07:54 PM
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Who was the specialist?
  #63  
Old 23-10-2017, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post

Everyone here seems to say that that is ok although that would normally involve the cutting out of the VIN and placing it in the correct RHD zone. The conversion might also involve a complete bulkhead swap which, preseumably for everyone here is ok too ?
.
Err,why would you have to do that? There's no need to move the ViN stamp when doing the swap - it's totally unnecessary. And as covered before, you don't need to replace the bulkhead, and if you did, as long as it is new and not from another vehicle, it doesn't jeopardise the ID.
  #64  
Old 24-10-2017, 12:20 AM
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All you've quoted is some bloke importing a LHD (I assume ?) car to use instead of his dead garage project and also (I assume ?) converting it to RHD.

Everyone here seems to say that that is ok although that would normally involve the cutting out of the VIN and placing it in the correct RHD zone. The conversion might also involve a complete bulkhead swap which, presumably for everyone here is ok too ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by richiep View Post
Err,why would you have to do that? There's no need to move the ViN stamp when doing the swap - it's totally unnecessary. And as covered before, you don't need to replace the bulkhead, and if you did, as long as it is new and not from another vehicle, it doesn't jeopardise the ID.
I guess no-one really has to but significant parts of the bulkhead will need to be modified unless leaving the original steering column in place whilst cutting another on the other side of the car. Replacing the bulkhead will involve cutting out the VIN and rewelding it into the 'new' bulkhead on whichever side.
The only difference is that a previous I.D is not being discarded but it's still a swap in my eyes and how many of you are confortable driving aroun in the 'wrong' I.D for the car ie HLS30 in a RHD car ?
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  #65  
Old 24-10-2017, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
In the case of 'Heritage' replacement bodyshells, there's no identity switching going on. A replacement part is being supplied by the original manufacturer - or an agent thereof - and the chassis number is usually stamped on a plate which is affixed to that replacement bodyshell. Key point is that there is no second or third party - already existing donor with its own identity - involved in the equation. This was always the case with the classic 'body in white' replacement monocoque/bodyshell from a manufacturer.

With the Nissan S30-series, the chassis number is engraved on the firewall at birth - effectively making the bodyshell/unibody unit 'The Car'. Part Number One. Supported by its engine bay-affixed chassis tag (stamped with the chassis number) and - in the case of North American market versions - the door jamb tag and dash tag, this forms the unit's identity. Theoretically, it's not a moveable feast. You can chop and change a car around, strip it down to a 'shell, hybridise, bastardise and mess around as much as you want (subject to inspection...) but you can't legally change its identity without full disclosure to the licensing authorities and acceptance of their choice for its destiny (including their VIN and a 'Q' plate, if they see fit). That's the situation in the UK as I understand it.

There are no replacement bodyshells available from Nissan anyway, so the 'Heritage 'shell' situation as far as it applies to 'us' is a straw man.
Para A : so the beef here is only that there might be a 'left-over' I.D - what if it was officially registered as being destroyed , No-one could pick it up again for nefarious purposes leaving the 'new' car clean of all residuous memory.
Bad guys just love plated car I.Ds - what a joke !

Para B : so, the bulkhead is not a spot-welded in panel which in beholden circles is best cut out completely for the best results ? Never mind the NA market trinkets, only riveted and easy-peasy to remove....and 'lose' !

Heritage - like I said, if the DVLA accept them, they ought to accept LH to RHD conversions keeping the original VIN.
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  #66  
Old 24-10-2017, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
Heritage - like I said, if the DVLA accept them, they ought to accept LH to RHD conversions keeping the original VIN.
Have they said yet that there will be a problem with these cars then?
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  #67  
Old 24-10-2017, 02:33 AM
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I reckon they should crush all the dodgy ones!
Make my all original RHD 74 260 worth more haha ��
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Nothing wrong with that motor mate
Just the nut holding the steering wheel
  #68  
Old 24-10-2017, 06:35 AM
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Interesting read on this subject.
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  #69  
Old 24-10-2017, 09:20 AM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uk66fastback View Post
Have they said yet that there will be a problem with these cars then?
I have no idea - presumably not by the comments read here.
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  #70  
Old 24-10-2017, 09:46 AM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
I have no idea - presumably not by the comments read here.
I just don't know how you can read this into the recent narrative. It's almost like you have a pre-programmed propensity to misunderstand.

The whole point about the LHD car converted to RHD, and keeping the original LHD chassis number/identity scenario is that there is NO CHANGE OF IDENTITY. It's still the same car, the same body unit with its factory-applied identity present and intact. There's no need to touch the firewall-engraved chassis number in a non full-bulkhead swap LHD to RHD conversion, and it can stay untouched in the same position.

It's quite a different scenario to taking a chassis number and identity from one car, and putting it on another.
  #71  
Old 24-10-2017, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
Heritage - like I said, if the DVLA accept them, they ought to accept LH to RHD conversions keeping the original VIN.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uk66fastback View Post
Have they said yet that there will be a problem with these cars then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
I have no idea - presumably not by the comments read here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
I just don't know how you can read this into the recent narrative. It's almost like you have a pre-programmed propensity to misunderstand.

The whole point about the LHD car converted to RHD, and keeping the original LHD chassis number/identity scenario is that there is NO CHANGE OF IDENTITY.
Nobody, not even you, appears to have a problem with this (LHD to RHD keeping the same LHD VIN) least of all me so just what are you claiming here that I don't understand please ?
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  #72  
Old 24-10-2017, 10:24 AM
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Hey guys, let's remember to keep this impersonal and not go round in circles. Don't want to have to lock the thread again!

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  #73  
Old 24-10-2017, 10:30 AM
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All smiles from my side Matt.

It seems that everyone agress that LHD to RHD but keeping the LHD VIN is ok whether or not the VIN is moved and/or the bulkhead changed.

And someone/body ought to prove the illegality of restoring a RHD (or a LHD) car using clean donor parts whilst keeping the original VIN.
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  #74  
Old 24-10-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
Nobody, not even you, appears to have a problem with this (LHD to RHD keeping the same LHD VIN) least of all me so just what are you claiming here that I don't understand please ?
Identity switching. You're wittering on about the situation with 'Heritage' bodyshells (which don't exist for the S30-series Z) and - apparently supporting the practice of identity-switching:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart
I'm not against any swapping VINs when it finishes with a safe car and MOT-ed and registered with the correct authorities - in your case, the DVLA.

I know of people on the continent importing LHD cars from the States and putting their existing VINs in.
When I see a 1969-dated chassis number on what is - clearly! - a post-1973 bodyshell, am I supposed to shut up and accept it? I get asked to make a condition report on the car - what do I do? What if the owner is oblivious? Do I point it out to him and open that can of worms, or do I keep quiet and in effect become complicit in the deceit?

It's the perpetrator who created the situation, not me. If your chums in the Greater European Co-Op are now knocking such cars out will-nilly, the sh*t will hit the fan...
  #75  
Old 24-10-2017, 10:54 AM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
Identity switching. You're wittering on about the situation with 'Heritage' bodyshells (which don't exist for the S30-series Z) and - apparently supporting the practice of identity-switching:
Perhaps a legal nuance but I believe that a RHD car wearing a LHD VIN and especially where it shouldn't be on the bulkhead ie on the LHside* should be treated no differently than a reshelled car.
*A RHdrive car will be expected to have an HS30 VIN on the RHside of the bulkhead - that clearly indicated in all the tech and spec docs available for RHdrive 240Zs.

Should an inspection be made after an accident or simply a routine MOT or an insurance evaluation, some serious questions might be poseed - do you disagree ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
When I see a 1969-dated chassis number on what is - clearly! - a post-1973 bodyshell, am I supposed to shut up and accept it? I get asked to make a condition report on the car - what do I do? What if the owner is oblivious? Do I point it out to him and open that can of worms, or do I keep quiet and in effect become complicit in the deceit?
So, this has already happened and was it a road or competition car ? My advice would be 100% to voice your justified observations. I can't see how you could even contemplate doing anything else !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
It's the perpetrator who created the situation, not me. If your chums in the Greater European Co-Op are now knocking such cars out will-nilly, the sh*t will hit the fan...
And it won't in Brexit-land after many more were done since many years and therefore more prolific than here where in the main, clean LHD cars are imported with no need for any form of swapping - we all drive on the wrong side as well !
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