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  #31  
Old 03-08-2017, 09:59 AM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SacCyclone View Post
Since I have never observed a North American 240Z with a "U" in the vehicle identification number stamped on the fire wall, am I correct in assuming that the "VIN" and "factory type code" are not the same number and are not interchangeable??
The suffixes to identify sub-variant were never engraved on the firewall. What is engraved on the firewall is a combination of the basic model prefix (S30, PS30, HS30, HLS30, RS30 etc etc) and the body serial number. This identifies an individual car, but does not tell you what sub-variant it is.

The full factory identification (in Japan this is called the 'Katashiki') is a combination of the chassis/car number (in Japan this is called the 'Shatai Bango') and the sub-variant identifying suffixes. They are not the same thing.

You understand that the North American market cars were given the suffix 'U' to identify them as such, yes? There were extra suffixes to identify further differences where applicable, but they were basically for in-house use by the factory and by the time the new cars arrived at the dealers they were pretty much forgotten about.

I've got to say, this is pretty basic stuff here. The codes are there in all sorts of factory documentation (FSMs, factory parts lists etc) and yet they appear to be news to many owners.
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:17 AM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
So...I'm still trying to get my head around this....

HS30
HS30-U
HLS30-U


What differs the HS30-U (aside from the wheel on the 'wrong' side) from from the HLS30 ?
A lot less than the HLS30-U vs HLS30 differences. The main one being - as you have guessed - LHD vs RHD.
The above is probably an illustration of why Nissan didn't bother giving all this stuff to civilians to play with. Personally I think it's fairly easy to understand even without knowing the full range of suffixes, but for others it seems to be like wrestling with quantum mechanics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Dezart
U is Europe only, so UK market cars would have been HS30-U ?
As I've tried to make clear, the suffix letters change meaning depending on context. DO NOT assume that 'U' means always one thing and always one thing only. It doesn't work that way. 'U' does not mean "Europe only" any more than it means "USA & Canada". It depends on what it is paired with.



I was interested in the suffix given to the official Portuguese 'Entreposto' models, as I don't believe I've ever seen it (and one may not even have been assigned...) but a full explanation of the various sub-variant codes is a topic for another thread, I think.
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:22 AM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Okay, so U doesn't always mean RHD and neither does it always mean Europe only.

Of what use is knowing it's presence or not then to us ? Philistine question I know.....

I'd love to see another topic on this please.
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  #34  
Old 03-08-2017, 10:42 AM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
Okay, so U doesn't always mean RHD and neither does it always mean Europe only.

Of what use is knowing it's presence or not then to us ? Philistine question I know.....
Dear Mrs Phyllis Stein,

I'd have thought the 'U' suffix would be something you'd be dealing with almost every day in your French club, what with all the USA & Canada market models turning up and mingling with official European mainland market fare? Knowing - and passing on - the differences between an 'HLS30' (or later 'HLS30-Q') and a refugee 'HLS30-U'?

I don't think I need to explain or justify the fact that knowing the codes exist and/or understanding what codes applied to your own car should be a no-brainer for anyone who has a deep enough interest in them.

This stuff goes to the very root of the creation of the cars, and ignorance of the nitty gritty is part of the "Designed for the USA" and "Designed by Albrecht Goertz" type nonsense we've had to put up with for so many years.

The 'Model Series' is 'S30' and all prefixes and suffixes stemmed from that root. It's not a puzzle, it's a map...
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  #35  
Old 03-08-2017, 11:09 AM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
Dear Mrs Phyllis Stein,

I don't think I need to explain or justify the fact that knowing the codes exist and/or understanding what codes applied to your own car should be a no-brainer for anyone who has a deep enough interest in them.

The 'Model Series' is 'S30' and all prefixes and suffixes stemmed from that root. It's not a puzzle, it's a map...
I'll take the heat (as usual) - I'm sure I'm not the only one curious but I still fail to see that if Nissan didn't pass this on to the public and perhaps even dealers, of what practical use is the info to an owner today ?

Knowing - and passing on - the differences between an 'HLS30' (or later 'HLS30-Q') and a refugee 'HLS30-U'?

I agree that understanding the 'nitty-gritty' will help dispel the nonsense myths and that you don't NEED to explain and certainly 'justify' the codes but you might like to :

Only useful as a map with a legend !
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  #36  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:20 PM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart View Post
I'll take the heat (as usual) - I'm sure I'm not the only one curious but I still fail to see that if Nissan didn't pass this on to the public and perhaps even dealers...
But they did! As I believe I have shown. You only have to pick up a factory service manual or a factory parts list to start seeing it everywhere.

Do people honestly not notice this stuff...?




Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanDezart
...of what practical use is the info to an owner today?
So you honestly don't think it's worth knowing the factory sub-variant designations for the cars? You wouldn't - for example - see the practical use in knowing the difference between an S30-S and an S30, or between a PS30-D and a PS30-SB, let alone the sheer whimsical fun of it all...?
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  #37  
Old 03-08-2017, 12:23 PM
Albrecht Albrecht is offline
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Mário,
If you have the opportunity, can you have a look at the underside of the glovebox liner on your car and see if it has any chalked-on model letter codes?

If it has anything, it would be really nice to see a photo. Thanks!
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  #38  
Old 03-08-2017, 04:28 PM
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SeanDezart SeanDezart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albrecht View Post
But they did! As I believe I have shown. You only have to pick up a factory service manual or a factory parts list to start seeing it everywhere.

Do people honestly not notice this stuff...?



So you honestly don't think it's worth knowing the factory sub-variant designations for the cars? You wouldn't - for example - see the practical use in knowing the difference between an S30-S and an S30, or between a PS30-D and a PS30-SB, let alone the sheer whimsical fun of it all...?

I don't have a factory manual or parts list - all I (and most others) have is a Haynes :

it only indicates that U means RHD...except for when it isn't ie N.American models.

And no sign of the 'Q'

I return to my previous confusion : what differences are there between HS30U and HLS30 cars please ,

Both were sold in Europe, both had the same box, diff, spoilers ?

To be fair, most OEM cardboard gloveboxes have gone the way of Pooh sticks and where do HLS30 280Zs fit in with codes an all ?

Whims ? I have no time - family, job, second job, club.... and how often will I ever get to see anything than stock dealer cars ?

I've only just been informed of a PS30-D !

You sent me this table a while back which is fab - I love info like this but again, how many JDM cars will I ever see ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Codes Haynes271.jpg (612.1 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Home market variants table - 1971[1]..jpg (121.4 KB, 17 views)
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  #39  
Old 03-08-2017, 05:13 PM
Datsunbat Datsunbat is offline
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Hi,

I'm reading all the post...excellent information!!! Hope people read it and share all we are saying!!!

Thanks a lot.

Albrecht - Monday I'll take a look on my car and ask some other friends to check, preferable if non restored, right?
I'll check the book I read long time ago where the "u" code is mentioned and see if help us in our questions, and I've got the original parts book from71, I got it from a dealer and I kept it to get parts and so on. I'll check too in the search for codes.

Sean - Our cars have different specs from the US and I read long tome ago, that even in the PL610 and other models that usa the "U" that it happened because were version where the owner don't need to buy extras, not a full extras model, but a well equiped model. for instance, the U-2000 ou the 180-U are cases like this, and even the "U" is present on the chassis number.


O believe portuguese Z's where one of the most equiped Z's, perhaps because Entreposto deal with Nissan all the equipment, or Mr.José Megre did some agreement in relation to it.


Let me see if I got time to make the research...

Regards
Mário
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  #40  
Old 24-08-2017, 04:34 PM
Datsunbat Datsunbat is offline
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Hi everybody!

Thanks a lot for yor feed-back. I’ve got some news and that’s why I’m here again.
Last Tuesday I went to Mr.vitorino shop and started do dismantle the Z…honestly I thought it was a dificult task, but it wasn’t…well, only in some little details.
The ca ris in excellent shape as photos will show…I guess this car was restored or deep painted some years ago.
Next week We’ll have at least one door rebuilt, below the doors and inside need some intervention.
Here are some photos…

Rear window acquisition…the car has the horizontal defrost lines and aren’t the correct…I found one vertical and job done…a few years ago I bought one in the USA and came broken…never bought or find anoter one..they are getting rare this days!!!





The beggining…



Door parts ready for the treatment…Nickel plating



Rear floor…not bad!!! I got scared, but fortunately the brown zone is glue…no rust…



Door ready for Mr.Vitorino!



Original floor carpet…but has to be removed!!!



Rear luggage accomodation in excelente shape






And now the surprise…the original blue…It can only be seen on some detailed parts..this is one!



Replacemente tyre floor…not bad…no rust…





The seats will be rédone, but I will only take care of the parts that are completely off…



No plastic cover…but I have 2 here…offered by a mate!!!



Passenger side floor…the usual…46 years and some bad treatment…the reason…the jack tool…but Mr.vitorino said that’s a part to be redone…









Drivers side floor…the usual again…but this one has no concerns…ist’s 75% good…a little intevention. By the end we will apply some Soundproofing board to avoid rust and noise.







My helper keeping all the bolts in place!



Under the plate no surprises!!!!




Datsun logo temporarily off…



In my opinion this s the exact moment to restore the car…it has some details that need intervention, and now that he has no rust holes and unrestorable parts the process will be much easier.

Hope you like it…next week some more news!!!
Regards
Mário
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  #41  
Old 01-10-2017, 05:55 PM
Datsunbat Datsunbat is offline
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Hi again.

On the last two weeks Mr.Vitorino worked on other projects and on the last days he worked in the Z.

He started with the doors, and at first they seem in pretty nice shape...but then he found some clues on bad reparations years ago. With this he decided to separate the door panel from the structure and he was right, they need some intervetion. Tons of rust and event the protetion layer was completely cracked.

This week I hope he finishes at least one door, because on Thursday I'm going to the shop.

Meanwhile, the electric system was rebuilt and is now tunned for 1971, I'm talking about the rear plate lights.

Let's see the pictures,,,and like I said...this was the correct moment for this Z...







The interior as Mr. Vitorino suspected...passenger door.









Drivers door with the same aspect...












And based in this suspections we have decided to make a full reparation of the doors. Next photos are from the passenger door. Door panel and interior panel removed.
I believe these were the worst parts of this car, and I'm aware of the rust on the front and rear arches and I think I'll be lucky.





















Hope you are enjoying this resto...next week some more news!

Regards
Mário
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  #42  
Old 16-10-2017, 10:53 PM
Datsunbat Datsunbat is offline
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Hi again!
Here I am with some fresh news and photos.
The metal work is on a great speed and this week the doors were finished.
This week I think the rear and cowl grill will be finished too.
The doors gave us some trouble and we had to send them to sandblast to clean the metal, not the panel, but the interior. By the end a new panel was used. The drivers door was in bad shape, worst than the passenger side.
On Saturday we remove the symbols, rear spoiler and rear lights. Only the bumper remain.
I hope the rear and front are better than the doors…
Let’s see the photos!

Doors and interior separated…




Doors ready. The green painting is a spray to protect the metal for the rust.















Mr.Vitorino looking for some rust…ahahahah





This was a corner of one door…tons of rust…







Under the cowl grill the scenery is good. I was a little bit worried about it…true..but Mr.Vitorino said that’s ok…the surprise is next…






Under the grill…



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  #43  
Old 16-10-2017, 10:53 PM
Datsunbat Datsunbat is offline
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The grill had to high pointson both sides, like a screw, but…it wasn’t what we thought…
Somebody before had covered the rust on the panel with iron mass and hammered the rust point down. With time the mass began to crack…and the result was this…














Mr.Vitorino immediatly started to work and found tons of rust!






All this marerial, like a spounge, hide the rust!






Again the original blue!











The spoiler removed and a cracked srew…







The bumper is not for my serie, I’ll remove it…only the enter is needed!


I’ll use charcoal colour to paint the structures…





Again the original blue and the rear door in excellent shape!!! No intervention needed!








My homework is now recover the symbols and clean some parts.







Mr. Vitorino trying to get the rear lights…not an easy task!





Hope you enjoyed the photos.
Next weekend I’ll try to get some more!

Regards
Mário
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  #44  
Old 17-10-2017, 12:40 AM
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uk66fastback uk66fastback is offline
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Great stuff Mário - enjoyed the pics - tell Mr V to keep up the good work!
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  #45  
Old 03-11-2017, 08:21 PM
Datsunbat Datsunbat is offline
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Hi folks,
I’ve got some more news!
Yesterday I’ve been in Mr.Vitorino garage, and I found my Z with another 2 parts finished. The cowl rill and the rear.
This means that soon he will be repairing the floors and front, I believe in one month for the metal work and then painting.
Soon I’ll take out the engine and gear-box to make the treatment and finish the metal work.
I’ve already started to separate some parts for the chrome and some to recover at home.
The cowl grill had to be redone in the extremities but now the part is new. And the rear was our big problem!!! The rear lights have never been removed and all the bolts were in bad shape, some we had to waste because were corroded.

Let’s see the photos for you to see all the advances!


This was redone because of the rust on the rear. The worst part was above the lights.




This part was severe…but now rédone!






The cowl grill is redone now…












And again the original blue in two separated parts of the car.





My Homework…




Hope you have enjoyed the photos and the work until now!
Next week more news!


uk66fastback: I'll tell him! He is a great man working with metal! Love the way you call it...Mr.V...awesome!!! Really cool!!!

Regards
Mário
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