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johnymd
04-09-2010, 06:52 PM
I thought I'd start a thread on the conversion I began in earnest this morning.

I took the old engine out of the Z last weekend and I desided to strip the rear end down and do an R200 conversion. I got that all back together last night including a quaiff and adjustable platform strutts so this morning it was sitting back on its wheels and I could move it out of the garage to make room for the soarer. I drove it back from my dad's earlier this week which was its last road trip. Apart from driving into the garage this morning.

The stripdown went quite straightforward and the engine and box were on the floor by lunchtime. It was then a case off stripping the bits off I didn't intend to use like: air con pump, power stearing pump, and exhaust downpipe (mine will have to be a lot lighter to the engine than this one). I moved the drivers side engine mount to a position further forward to see if it would line up better with the stock Z front mounts and it does. The other side not quite so easy but I think it can be done. Most people seam to weld in a new crossmember but I didn't want to do this if it was not nessesary. I had to cut the gearbox mounts off as apart from being about 4" too far forward, they hit on the box. So, stuck the engine and box in and it seams to fit pritty well. I've set it up 1.5" from the firewall and 1/2" above the rack. I may set it a little lower and further back but I think removing the rocer covers will then be impossible. I'll have a think on it. The next job then is to fabricate some engine and gearbox mounts but before I can do that I need to deside what type of mounts to use and get them.

Here's a few pics of the day.

Martin W
04-09-2010, 07:42 PM
interesting swap, keep us all posted:thumbs:

tel240z
04-09-2010, 08:06 PM
Blimey john thats a good days work take my hat off to you, :bow:

johnymd
04-09-2010, 08:48 PM
I tend to get a lot done in a day, the problem is getting motivated to start. I would like to have the car back on the road within the next couple of months. It will then be a drivable work in progress. The bigest problem that could slow me down is saving up for parts I may need.

The main parts I'll have to save for are:
Fuel pumps and swirl pot
CV adapters
Uprates radiator
Exhaust
Propshaft

The rest of the parts will come off the soarer

datsun dave
04-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Bloody Hell thats a fantastic days work i take my hat off to you.

Wyn
04-09-2010, 09:35 PM
This should be a good thread :thumbs:

Have you already coverted the tank etc to run injected?
What you using back there ?
I take it them lines n/s of the bulkhead are for fuel?

Also I spy what looks like the o/s brake lines run through the inner wing
Is that right ? Looks neat either way :thumbs:

johnymd
04-09-2010, 09:57 PM
Bloody Hell thats a fantastic days work i take my hat off to you.

Thanks Dave. I had to get the engine in today 'cus my wife said "you'll never get that engine swapped today"

Have you already coverted the tank etc to run injected?
What you using back there ?
I take it them lines n/s of the bulkhead are for fuel?

Done nothing to the tank. Going to run a lift pump - swirl pot where battery used to be - HP pump adjacent to swirl pot (don't know if that's the right way, any advice welcome).
The fuel line were new 6 years ago when I first put the car together.

Also I spy what looks like the o/s brake lines run through the inner wing
Is that right ? Looks neat either way

I wanted the clean look so hid the lines and loom, also the washer pipe are moved. I then cut off all the clips and welded up all the holes.

FAST EDDIE
04-09-2010, 10:02 PM
crack on dude, and keep the pics coming too!:thumbs:

Wyn
04-09-2010, 10:11 PM
Done nothing to the tank. Going to run a lift pump - swirl pot where battery used to be - HP pump adjacent to swirl pot (don't know if that's the right way, any advice welcome)

Each to there own but I would not run a fuel pot/pump of any sort in the engine bay, esp if turbocharged !
Tis askin for trouble imo ?

johnymd
04-09-2010, 11:35 PM
I'm always open to advice.

grolls
05-09-2010, 01:43 AM
This should be a good thread :thumbs:

Also I spy what looks like the o/s brake lines run through the inner wing
Is that right ? Looks neat either way :thumbs:


looks like its gonna be a stonking thread....oh and I spy an interceptor in pic 2 mmm nice, but ouch 7.2 litre and a fuel bowser behind it...;)

Mr.G
05-09-2010, 03:14 AM
Nice, the engine looks very at home in their, amazing progress.

I was going to run a swirl pot on mine but in the end I had the fuel tank cut open and baffles welded inside it and have a BOSCH 044 pump mounted by the diff, if i were to do it again I'd get a company like ProAlloy to make me one from scratch but copy the contours of the old tank and maybe have a pump mounted inside the tank.

One thing to look into, and you may have already done this - I swaped my fuel feed pipe and made it my return and I run a new larger bore pipe as my feed.

moggy240
05-09-2010, 09:36 AM
something like this will be handy for mounting your engine

Beta Motorsports, LLC Products (http://www.betamotorsports.com/products/products.php)

or atleast give you some ideas

Rob Gaskin
05-09-2010, 11:09 AM
I would like to have the car back on the road within the next couple of months.

Wow!

Very interesting swap John, thanks for including us on the project.

Good Luck.

240z
06-09-2010, 01:59 PM
Looking great - :thumbs:

Is the gearbox the one with the shorter extension housing (I think it is from the pics)? I'd be interested to see where it positions itself within the car. I know I'm going to have to go R154 at some point..

Bantambunny
06-09-2010, 02:18 PM
Looks fantastic so far so it'll be really interesting to see this progress but sits really nicely in the engine bay :)

johnymd
06-09-2010, 06:31 PM
Not keen on the Betamotorsports crossmember as it sets the engine in the wrong place for RHD cars. I'm going to make up my own mounts.

You may be right Phil about the extension housing. With the engine 2" from the baulkhead the gearlever is at the front of the hole. I'm going to try and set it lower in order to get it further back but this will involve cutting some bits off the ali sump. I thought the soarer extension was the one to go for - it apears I may have got it wrong. I can probably live with it where it is and change it later.

zedhead260
06-09-2010, 06:33 PM
I may set it a little lower and further back

Do you think that with the engine so far back it will make the front ride high ?

;):D

Rob Gaskin
06-09-2010, 07:11 PM
So is the L6 going into the Soarer ;)

johnymd
06-09-2010, 08:44 PM
Been playing around with the engine/gearbox location again tonight. The engines still sitting 2" from the baulkhead but I've lowered the front 1/2". The gearlever comes out in the right place because the design of the lever steps it back a couple of inches. I've looked at loads of picture of 240z's with 1JZ's in them and they are all in about this position. So I'm pretty happy with that.

Templated the engine mount plates that bolt to the block last night and started cutting them out today. I've used 5mm plate and i'm welding onto this 50X50X5mm box section which will go out, down, and forward slightly fo meet the existing engine mount location. I'll then make up a through bolt design based around some GTIR mounts. If you look at one of the attached pictures you'll get the idea.

GTR-240Z
06-09-2010, 08:49 PM
John here is the link to the radiator we talked about at North Weald may be useful in your conversion since your need the inlet/outlet on the same side like an RB.

Griffin Thermal Products 1-28182-X - Griffin Aluminum Circle Track Radiators - Overview - SummitRacing.com (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GRI-1-28182-X?autofilter=1&part=GRI%2D1%2D28182%2DX&N=700+4294839040+400030+4294810996+4294792838+115&autoview=sku)

How much power are you hoping to get out of the 1JZ once finished?

johnymd
06-09-2010, 08:52 PM
How much power are you hoping to get out of the 1JZ once finished?

Just enough to beat you;)

Thanks for the link, I tried to find the 2 pass ones last night but they do so many.

johnymd
06-09-2010, 09:06 PM
I think your pretty safe for a while though.

Around the 400 mark would be nice but I want to keep the twins for the nice drivability. The mods will probably be:

Better downpipe
Exhaust
FMIC
Rebuild turbo with steel internals
Standaloan ECU
Boost contoller
Increase boost to 1.2bar

This should get me near that mark.

240z
07-09-2010, 03:01 PM
Good call on the down/dump pipe, made a huge difference to mine, but still to be tested properly at the strip! :(


Let me know if you need an intercooler, I've got the custom made one which is a direct fit for the car if you fancy it, probably better than a cheap ebay one..I'll also have a set of lews split wastegate dump pipes (y-pipe) which were made for the 240z going free if I ever get round to installing my new kit...

The gear lever location looks fine, they do 2 extension housings in the soarer I think, one that hangs right off the back, might be even too far off the back by the looks of it...

I'm getting jealous!
:thumbs:

I think your pretty safe for a while though.

Around the 400 mark would be nice but I want to keep the twins for the nice drivability. The mods will probably be:

Better downpipe
Exhaust
FMIC
Rebuild turbo with steel internals
Standaloan ECU
Boost contoller
Increase boost to 1.2bar

This should get me near that mark.

johnymd
08-09-2010, 08:58 AM
I've already got an intercooler that needs minor mods to fit. Not sure how good it is though - cheap ebay one! Definatelty interested in the Y pipe (thats replaces the cast pipe where the turbo outlets join?). You realy should get on with that upgrade.

240z
08-09-2010, 12:27 PM
Definatelty interested in the Y pipe (thats replaces the cast pipe where the turbo outlets join?). You realy should get on with that upgrade.

Yep - the one in the pic, and the difference it can make..

Might have to wait until winter time though..

johnymd
08-09-2010, 12:53 PM
I can wait.

Amazing the difference the various upgrades make.

johnymd
17-09-2010, 09:16 PM
Works been getting in the way of progress but the engine and box are now mounted in their final position. It sits a lot lower and further back than the L series, also its now sits vertical (I never liked the look of a pissed engine). A new props been ordered and should be ready mid next week. Just measured and ordered all the intercooler pipework and fittings along with the fuel pumps and swirl pot. By next weekend I should have a whole load of parts to start fitting. Fitted the center consule this morning to check on the gear lever and it couldn't be better. I've started researching the wiring (which I'll put off till last) and I think shouldn't be too bad.

Here's a few more pics.

moggy240
18-09-2010, 07:36 PM
that looks a very nice fit !!!!!!!!!!!

johnymd
18-09-2010, 09:58 PM
Yeah, it's like it was made to go there.

Been makeing brakets and fitting the intercooler today. Its got to come off again to have the inlets modified but it seems to fit pretty good.

moggy240
18-09-2010, 10:07 PM
i noticed you have seam welded the chassis legs ,did you do this in preparation of puting in this engine conversion ??

johnymd
18-09-2010, 10:21 PM
No, the car was like this when I bought it. It's had a hard life and at one stage tried to go under a crash barrier. It didn't come away from this very well. It was taken to fourways to get the body straight again and they replaced every thing from the windscreen forward with new panels. Along with rear panel and rear quarter. The bill was around £10,000 for the pannel work and it came away from them as a very good shell. I guess they seam welded it when they asembled the front.

johnymd
25-09-2010, 12:16 PM
I've got the prop shaft back now and they seam to have done a good job. They have cut the front off the toyota and supplied a new centre tube and rear uprated UJ. All for £125.

The swirl pot and filter arrived this morning so I'll be looking at the fuel system today. Anyone know how to take a sytec bullet filter apart?

Here's a few pics.

Mr.F
25-09-2010, 12:19 PM
Anyone know how to take a sytec bullet filter apart?

They are supplied with two steel pegs that fit into the holes on the top which provides support for leverage to unscrew the two halves. If yours are lost I should be able to find a pair for you to borrow...

johnymd
25-09-2010, 05:50 PM
Thanks Mike and yes I could do with borrowing one at some point. I thought this may how it come apart but when it wouldn't budge I thought I'd better check.

Gave up on the fuel system as I desided not to use the soarer lines and buy new one's. So I thought I'd tackle the throttle cable. Stripped the cable and pedle out of the soarer. I drilled a couple of bolt holes above and below the existing linkage hole in the baulkhead and bolted up the cable support assemble out of the soarer. Checked the cable location and then modified the Z pedel with the end of the soarer one. I thought the cable was going to be too long but it fits perfect. I can't believe how good the throttle feels compaired to the old linkage.

Clutch looks like the next job. Just need to work out a good route for the pipe and work out how long it needs to be.

johnymd
16-10-2010, 08:53 PM
Been slowly working my way through the various jobs.

Clutch - As the slave cylinder is on the other side of the gearbox I made up a new pipe to go from the Z master cylinder to the soarer flexible pipe that attaches to the slave. Both fittings are standard Z type.

Fan belt - Because I'm not using the air con or power stearing pump it causes a problem with the belt tensioner pulley. The standard one is smooth as it runs on the inside of the belt. Because of how it will now run it needs to have ribbs. I used a pulley of a Honda S2000 which seams to do the job perfectly. I used a shorter belt off 975mm.

Fuel lines - I ended up using the same size as the standard soarer (they seam to have no problems, even with fairly big upgrades) in conifer so I was able to use the soarer fittings and flexibles to the engine.

Intercooler - Had the ends modified so they turn through 90 and go straight through the existing rad support holes. Finished off the intercooler pipework with 70mm ali tube and black silicone elbows (I think this looks sh*t so I've just ordered a load of 70mm 45 bends in ali which I'll cut up and have tiged when I get a chance).

Cooling - Using the Z rad untill I can afford one in ali. Most of the pipes done, just waiting for some bends to finish the heater circuit.

Basically it pretty much finished all bar the wiring. Been going through all the diagrams and pinouts so will probable start this next weekend.

I still need to finish off the pump/swirl pot stuff but I'm still waiting on some fittings that should have been hear last week.

datsun dave
16-10-2010, 09:04 PM
Any pictures of the intercooler fitted ?.

johnymd
17-10-2010, 11:20 PM
Some intercooler pics Dave.

Once the car is up and running and I'm happy with the fit and how everything works I'll take it all apart again to clean any welds up and paint everything. At the moment everything is just trial fitted.

us2
18-10-2010, 12:02 AM
Nissan designers must have known that people would be fitting intercoolers when the S30
was conceived, The space that was left and the holes in perfect position. Amazing.LOL

Nice work.:thumbs:

datsun dave
18-10-2010, 08:23 AM
Some intercooler pics Dave.

Once the car is up and running and I'm happy with the fit and how everything works I'll take it all apart again to clean any welds up and paint everything. At the moment everything is just trial fitted.

Nice idea with welding alloy tube onto the intercooler and passing it through the rad support panel, i might just copy you on that as it looks like we have bought the same intercooler.

johnymd
18-10-2010, 08:39 AM
Yeah, the rad pannel has convenient holes, just the wright size. The one on the pasenger side is slightly lower though so you have to lower this side by 5mm. It would look better with tighter bends but I couldn't find any so used a 70mm 90 and cut it in half. Once its all ground back and smoothed it should look OK. I had to find someone else to weld them as my mate is so busy I didn't want to ask him. So it cost me £60 as rather than my normal FOC.

tel240z
18-10-2010, 09:59 PM
John just an observation but i see that the new belt tensioner set up is on the pull side of the belt, just thinking at high revs load on the alternator and water pump it may be inclined to pull against the spring loaded tensioner and either slip, or come off, also the crank driving pully is only covered by 90 degrees of the belt at any time be nice if you could lock the tensioner in place

just a thought

Tel

Oh presuming that is the engine rotates clockwise

johnymd
18-10-2010, 10:45 PM
Sometimes you can't see for looking and its always good to hear someones views. I really hadn't thought about this at all but what you say sounds very valid. I'll keep a close eye on it. I did consider that the main pulley only had a small section of belt contact but as this is the tried and tested method on this engine to do away with air con and power steering I assumed any problems would have come to light. If I have problems then I'll just put the old pumps back on.

Made some more progress tonight but no pictures.
Fitted the diff output shafts (Thanks George) and the driveshafts.
Fitted and plumbed in the swirl pot, lift pump and return pipes. Can't finish the main pump and filter as I'm still waiting for some fittings but they should be in tomorrow.

I'm starting to run out of jobs to do so I may have to get on with the thing I've been putting off - the wiring.

johnymd
21-10-2010, 10:18 AM
The fuel pump fittings I've been waiting for came yesterday so I managed to get the fuel system finished. It's pretty tight under the back but it all went in OK. I've made sure the filter is easy to remove too. Run the pump wires through a new gromett hole and up into the rear quarter where I've mounted the fuel pump ECU. The lift pump is fed when the ignition is on and the HP pump will be controled by the ECU.

I thought I'd redo the intercooler pipes as I wasn't happy with all those silicone elbows and all the parts were in. I've shortened the intercooler pipes so they end just inside the engine bay and cut up 3 45 ali bends. I'll see if I can get these welded up today.

datsun dave
21-10-2010, 12:45 PM
Looking good great work.

Bantambunny
21-10-2010, 02:36 PM
Looking great, i wish mine had come together this quickly! :)

johnymd
21-10-2010, 06:38 PM
Looking good great work.

Thanks Dave, I just couldn't live with all the silicone joiners.

Looking great, i wish mine had come together this quickly!

I've not touched the engine so it was just the swap to do. You've delved deep into the modified engine department and made it work. I'm impressed.

johnymd
22-10-2010, 09:45 PM
Finished off the intercooler pipework tonight and I'm much happier with it. Finished the heater water hoses so the coolant system can now be filled and tested. That's the last of the jobs so I'll make a start on the wiring tomorrow by pulling the engine loom apart and finding a location for the ECU and ignitor.

moggy240
24-10-2010, 08:09 PM
its getting there ,very bling !!!!!!!!!!

johnymd
28-10-2010, 09:48 PM
I desided that I couldn't put it off any longer so tonight was the night to start my wiring. I rang my mate and dragged him away from work to give me a hand. The first thing we desided on was to use the fuse box, relays and loom from the soarer as a starting point to deal with most of the supplies the engine needed. We thought this would simplify matters but I'm not not too sure. Anyway, the first thing was to pull apart the loom and trace all the wires. Then strip all the wires we didn't need. I've left some spare circuits intact for future devices. We then stripped the engine loom and started traceing backwards from the ECU the circuits we needed. I already had an ECU pinout drawing that told me what external connection were needed. We soon found that this was not very accurate or complete. We ended the day with a good idea of what needed connecting to where so the next job would be to power up the fusebox and looms to check the supplies before connecting the ECU.

Here's a few pictures to show things have to get worse before they get better.

SKiddell
29-10-2010, 10:33 AM
Welcome to my world of elastictrickery Johnny where the multimeter is your best friend

Looking good though it all seems to sit quiet nicely in there

Rob Gaskin
29-10-2010, 10:51 AM
John, I'm very impressed with your 'get it done' attitude.

I've got a bedroom and en-suite room I've been doing extensive work on for a few months now (major refit - including all plumbing). When we watch Grand Designs and people have built a new house in the same time my wife looks at me in that special way :rolleyes:.

It'll be interesting to see how it transforms the character of the car and what it's like to drive.

Good luck with the wiring :thumbs:

Bantambunny
29-10-2010, 11:01 AM
I pulled my fuse box apart on the V8, it's amazing what you can remove but very useful to re use the inline fuse holders for future equipment and alot tidier too.

I've now moved it under the front headlight out the way and just need a cover to go in place to stop it getting wet

johnymd
30-10-2010, 10:15 PM
Spent another couple of hours on the wiring this morning. Powered up the fusebox and ECU, no smoke or high current draw so a good start. Power to the black/white wire on plug cf2 pulled in the starter so that's good. Found the feed to operate the main relay which put 2 of the supplies onto the ECU, in addition to the Batt supply already there. Traced the other 2 ECU supplies that came from the other fusebox (will need to configure a relay to control these and feed them via fuses). Connected up the fuel pump ECU but couldn't get it to fire the pump. Need to do a bit more research to find out what conditions the ECU requires before it primes the pump. Other than the fuel pump, the rest of it seams ready to start. Was hoping to get it running today but a mate and his new wife come visiting and we ended up going out for lunch. I'll have another go at it tomorrow and hopefully get it running.

Using the soarer fuse/relay box has made things much more complicated but is the right way of doing it. Trying to work out how the relays are interlinked has caused the biggest problems. The info on the internet helps a little but without the help of a mate of mine I'd be struggling to do it right. I'll be on my own again tomorrow as he's busy until late next week and I can't wait that long.

datsun dave
30-10-2010, 10:42 PM
This is making me look a right lazy person any chance you can slow down so I can catch up on my build.

johnymd
31-10-2010, 05:47 PM
Sorry Dave but I'm another step closer. Just got her running. Ticks over fine and seams to rev without a problem. I still need to connect it up to the Z loom as its all on fly leads at the moment. Hopefully I'll be able to go for a drive by next week......can't wait.

johnymd
31-10-2010, 07:24 PM
Just took a video of the startup. You'll notice it won't turn off. I had to let it stall as it run out of fuel.

YouTube - 240z 1JZGTE First start (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP3NlhjCLWU)

Rob Gaskin
31-10-2010, 08:19 PM
Congratulations John. :bow:

I liked the commentary best and why does it sound like it's running under water, my L6 sounds much nicer ;)?

johnymd
31-10-2010, 08:22 PM
Thanks Rob.

Maybe I overfilled the rad!

johnymd
07-11-2010, 07:25 PM
Well I didn't get to drive the z to the half way house meet today but I did take it up and down the road. The wiring is pretty much finished with all the supplies fed by the correct fuses and relays. I still need to control the fuel pump relay in a more satisfactory way and finish the radiator fan control. Gauges will also need tweaking but the engine conversion is pretty much done and working.

So, the last job to tackle before I'm back on the road is the exhaust, which I'll try and arrange tomorrow. After that the car will become a road going work in progress and will continue its evolutionary process. I've lots of future plans but I should be able to do these without taking the car off the road for long. It's 2 months this weekend since I took the engines out of the Z and soarer so I didn't quite make my 2 month target for the swap but I've not had as much time on the car as I'd liked, with heavy work commitments. Still, I'm pretty happy with the progress.

Rob Gaskin
07-11-2010, 08:02 PM
I'm pretty happy with the progress.

And so you should be that's a fine acheivement :bow:.

us2
08-11-2010, 12:02 AM
Ive been following this with interest.Good result:cheers:

us2
08-11-2010, 12:03 AM
Iv'e been following this with interest. Good result.

johnymd
14-11-2010, 02:02 PM
Work is getting in the way too much at the moment so slow progress this week.

I did manage to swap the front strutts for an old coilover set I had so I can now adjust the ride height at both ends. Didn't get a chance to take the car in for the new exhaust this week as I still had to modify the downpipe. I spent a couple of hours in the garage this morning and manageged to sort out the downpipe. It just needed a couple of cuts and re-welding to move the outlet over a few inches and up a little. Should be able to drop it in to Haywoods this week. I've ordered the rolcage tubeing so I'll make a start on that in a couple of weeks.

Here's a couple of pics of the downpipe modded.

moggy240
14-11-2010, 07:53 PM
are you making your own cage or are you buying pre cut sections ready to weld ?

johnymd
14-11-2010, 08:11 PM
I'll be making my own. That way I can have it fit exactly how I want. I've spent the last few years looking at every cage I can so I now know just what I want and how it will be fitted. I can use a mates electric benders and workshop. If I do it on a Saturday morning I'll be able to collar one of his welders to give me a hand too. I'll try and get the mounts welded in at home in preperation for the cage.

moggy240
14-11-2010, 08:19 PM
you can not beat sliding a length of pipe up a bender on a satuday morning:lol::lol:

datsun dave
14-11-2010, 10:24 PM
you can not beat sliding a length of pipe up a bender on a satuday morning:lol::lol:

That's funny.

johnymd
15-11-2010, 10:17 AM
The bender does look pretty sexy, but not my type.

datsun dave
15-11-2010, 01:28 PM
I'll be making my own. That way I can have it fit exactly how I want. I've spent the last few years looking at every cage I can so I now know just what I want and how it will be fitted. I can use a mates electric benders and workshop. If I do it on a Saturday morning I'll be able to collar one of his welders to give me a hand too. I'll try and get the mounts welded in at home in preperation for the cage.

I have the rear roll cage out of the car do you want some pictures and sizes ?.

johnymd
15-11-2010, 06:33 PM
Thanks Dave, that would help and all help is appreciated.

johnymd
15-11-2010, 06:40 PM
Dropped the car off at Haywood & Scott's today for the new exhaust. They may be able to fit it in as its there but it probable won't be ready untill end of next week. At least it will give me a break and a chance to have a clear up in the garage. Sue thinks it will give me a chance to carry on with the house but I've got other ideas.

datsun dave
15-11-2010, 09:13 PM
Thanks Dave, that would help and all help is appreciated.

PM me your email and i will take some pictures and Isizes.

moggy240
16-11-2010, 12:54 AM
The bender does look pretty sexy, but not my type.

i see what you mean ,i would not mind slipping a length pipe into that:lol:

moggy240
16-11-2010, 12:55 AM
have you worked out what size tubing and wall thickness you are using with the bender

johnymd
16-11-2010, 06:42 PM
I think the tube we've ordered is 2.5mm thick seamless 41mm diameter. Thats the maximum size die's he has.

Wyn
16-11-2010, 09:49 PM
Looking good :thumbs:

moggy240
16-11-2010, 11:11 PM
I think the tube we've ordered is 2.5mm thick seamless 41mm diameter. Thats the maximum size die's he has.

sounds like the right stuff for the job,i was only asking as if the tubing has thin wall thickness then it can over stress even with a mandrel bender

johnymd
17-11-2010, 09:10 AM
He did mention that the thiner wall stuff would kink. They've been using it all week to make custom high end trailers and this is the tube they've been using so he's added a few extra lenths to his next order for me.

johnymd
21-11-2010, 11:34 PM
No Z to play with as its still away having the exhaust done so I've been having a clear up in the garage. I took the soarer shell down the scrap yard and couldn't believe how much I got for it. £181.60 cash. That means with the parts I've already sold I've got back more than I paid for the car!

zedhead260
22-11-2010, 08:01 AM
I've got back more than I paid for the car!

Mission accomplished;)

All good stuff John, you've made great progress :)

johnymd
22-11-2010, 06:01 PM
Thanks Rob. Car is being picked up from the exhaust place on Friday and taken straight to the rolling road. Then depending on how that goes I'll take it to my mates workshop to do the cage (hopefully driving it there).

moggy240
23-11-2010, 12:23 AM
are welding the cage in or as a bolt in cage ?

johnymd
23-11-2010, 06:26 PM
Probable bolt in, but things may change on the day. If I can make the complete rear half in one section, and still get it in and out then it will be bolt in. If not, it will be welded in with removable door bars. I know its not the best approach but I think it will evolve on the day.

johnymd
26-11-2010, 10:49 PM
Picked up the car from Haywood & Scott's today. Sounds great and does the job, not pretty though! I had heard that their exhausts were a work of art, maybe they had someone else do mine. Anyway, got it all back together and been driving around all day.......until the battery went flat.......forgot to check it was charging. Finally sorted that with a second field winding supply and fitted a charge light. I now have charge light, oil pressure light and water temperature gauge and that's it. I'll have to figure out the rest later. The z gauge works perfect with the Toyota temp sender. Still loads of things to sort out/improve but its now back on the road and usable.

Mr.F
27-11-2010, 11:56 AM
back on the road and usable.

Still with the blue plastic tub driver's seat from when I saw it at H & S?

johnymd
27-11-2010, 10:53 PM
The plastic tub didn't really support my back enough so I put a z seat back in.

Couldn't do the cage today as my mate was too busy so it's been put back to next Saturday. So I've spent the day driving and tweaking. I think I need to change the diff ratio as it seams to be reving far too high. Not exactly sure as I've no speedo or rev counter but it sounds high. First gear is pretty useless anyway so I think I need to go down to a 3.7 or maybe 3.54. I thought it would be about right and here's my reasoning:
The soarer had a 4.1 diff and 225/55 x 16 tyres and red line in top was 170mph. The Z's got a 3.9 and 205/55 x 16's. I expected the tyre difference and diff difference to roughly equal out and I'd be left with pretty much the same gearing. Am I missing something?

Rob Gaskin
27-11-2010, 11:19 PM
You are missing the gearbox.

johnymd
27-11-2010, 11:31 PM
No....the gearbox is there, I can see the lever sticking through the floor. Oh, you mean the gearbox ratio's. Well as I've used the same gearbox from the soarer and put it in the Z that doesn't come into the equation. I forgot to mention I wasn't using the Z box.

johnymd
27-11-2010, 11:38 PM
I may have stumbled on the answer. I thought the soarer had a 4.1 but it appears the one's with R154 gearboxes had a 3.74 so that's why it revs higher for the same speed. I guess I need a 3.7 or maybe 3.54. Now where's that ratio calculator?

Rob Gaskin
28-11-2010, 11:34 AM
Thought about larger dia tyres?

racer
28-11-2010, 11:01 PM
John are you going to change wheels in the future? If so you need to hold off on any ratio decision.
I guess you can't make any choise until your rev counter is hooked up and you've done some motorway work. Just my thoughts

johnymd
28-11-2010, 11:35 PM
I hadn't thought about larger diameter tyres but if I stick with 16's I think a higher profile may look odd. Could go 17's but wheel changes are a long way off. As Matt says, I need to find a rev counter that will work off pulses and then use GPS for my speed. It does sound like its reving very high though.....pulls really hard in 5th when boost cuts in though.

johnymd
09-12-2010, 07:52 PM
Can't really go out in the snow so it's time to start modding. I know I said I wanted an understated factory look with no shiny bit but I need to do something with the rocker covers and ali intake bits so I thought I'd make a start and stripped some bits off the engine on Tuesday night.

I rubbed down the rocker covers and primmed them ready for the paint. Wasn't really sure what to do with all the cast intake bits as the finish is pretty rough so I thought I'd sleep on it. I headed over to Canvey island wednesday morning to get some paint and stopped off at a polishers I knew to see if he could smooth all the intake casting bits so I could get a good paint finish. He no-longer does polishing suggested I he power coats everything instead. Sounded good to me at £80 for the whole lot so I dropped everything off. He rang me back this afternoon and I'm well impressed with the results. Check out the pics below. I'll try and get most of it back together tonight.

moggy240
09-12-2010, 09:12 PM
your right !!!!!!! it all looks very impressive,love the colour aswell.good choice:thumbs::thumbs:

johnymd
09-12-2010, 10:44 PM
All back together.

Rob Gaskin
09-12-2010, 11:16 PM
Looks nice but the problem is where do you stop? That intake looks a bit corroded.

£80 is the fuel for a trackday :driving:and if you keep the bonnet closed nobody will be any the wiser. ;)

Joking apart Johnny I'm very impressed with what you have done is such a short time and like I said before I'm interested to see how it goes.

Let Matt have a drive sometime:eek:

johnymd
09-12-2010, 11:37 PM
Yeah, where do you stop and yes the intake does let it down a bit now. I'll have to work out how to strip the intake down. I don't think it will ever stop as I enjoy the challenge of modifying and doing things myself. It may never be the best but it will be all my own work.

We're all different and want different things from our car. Mine is primarily a road car and a project I can tinker with. I will probably take it on the track but that won't be its main role. As i say, each to their own.

johnymd
13-12-2010, 08:11 PM
Started the cage on Saturday (I'll take some pics later). Spent most of the day getting the main hoop just right. By which time my hangover had reached monumental proportions so I threw my gutts up and went home to bed. Only just feeling human again. Its not that I had a lot to drink but mixing various shot was the icing on the cake. Plus I can't take my drink anymore. Anyway, I'm going to have a play in the garage soon so I'll get some pics then.

Rob Gaskin
13-12-2010, 10:00 PM
Oh no - Turbocharging and shots whatever next? Southerners :smash:

What's wrong with a good old L6 and a pint of real ale, Tony Fall did alright on it :cheers:

johnymd
13-12-2010, 10:48 PM
Maybe I should practice my drinking skills a bit more?

What's wrong with a good old L6 and a pint of real ale

They don't have quite the same kick.

Anyway, been playing with cardboard so I can make up some fixings for the main hoop. Its going to be a full bolt in cage so I can paint it oulside the car. Its hard to measure up for the bracing without the main hoop in exactly the right place so thats my first task.

moggy240
13-12-2010, 11:50 PM
looks good to me,you are a lucky sod to have access to this equipment,i am sooooo jealous !!!!!!!

Rob Gaskin
14-12-2010, 10:33 AM
John, don't know if these pics will help but might be worth a look:

Pictures by dat240z - Photobucket (http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f171/dat240z/)

johnymd
12-01-2011, 10:21 PM
Been driving the car more than working on it lately so not a lot of progress.

I've mounted the ECU on the LHS of the passenger footwell and tided up the wiring a bit (still open as I'm doing mods). I bought a Mk3 supra instrument panel for £20 and stripped out the tacho and speedo. I've taken the gutts out of the Z one and transplanted the bits. I'm now using the z body and face but the supra mechanism and needle(couldn't use z needle as I couldn't get the balance correct). The tacho's back in the car and works perfect. The speedo's not quite ready. I've swapped the electronic gearbox speedo sender for a mechanical one and bought the first part of the cable. I was hoping to use the z cable but I need to get a toyota one of the correct length. I've extended the oil pressure switch whole and fitted the z sender so I've now got a working oil gauge so thats the gauges pretty much sorted. The cars booked in for a rolling road session on 20th and a gizzmo boost controller/fuel cut defender is being setup at the same time, so I'll have a boost gauge as well. The gizzmo ms-2 has got an intelligent turbo timer built in but not decided if they are a good idea.

Not much more progress with the cage. The main hoop is all bolted in but I'm waiting for some brackets to be pressed out and bent up so I can finish the rear mounting points.

johnymd
22-01-2011, 09:48 PM
Gizzmo MS-2 fitted this week and dynoed Thursday and most of today. Lots of faffing around and swapping boost controllers as the boost indication was all over the place with the controller working sometimes. Turned out to be my fault as I cut into the wrong wire from the map sensor, oops. They were very under standing but took the **** out of me all day today. Although the car spent nearly 2 days on the dyno it was only the last 2 that were really productive. The car runs loads better, no fuel cut and running 14-15 psi with no creap. Fuelings good and boost is up to 10psi by 2000 revs.

HP at the wheels was 293 @ 5300.
Torque was over 300ft/lb between 4300 and 5000.

This gives me a good starting point to build on and I'm already planning the next upgrades. What these runs have shown is that the turbos are a limiting factor and uping the boost did not produce any more usable power, just more heat. They have suggested a few cheap mods that will allow boost changes without screwing up the fueling which I'll probable book in for a couple of weeks time. This, along with a fairly substantial (75hp) mod, if the price is right.

Rob Gaskin
22-01-2011, 11:22 PM
HP at the wheels was 293 @ 5300. :thumbs:
Torque was over 300ft/lb between 4300 and 5000. :thumbs:

This gives me a good starting point to build on and I'm already planning the next upgrades. :eek:

John, that sounds like useful grunt to me. Best to learn how to get the most out of the car with that power before you concern yourself with getting more. :driving:

Once again a rolling road session has paid for itself I reckon.

johnymd
22-01-2011, 11:29 PM
Best to learn how to get the most out of the car with that power before you concern yourself with getting more.
I'm trying to get as many miles under my belt as possible but it will be a steep learning curve. Especially out of corners.

Once again a rolling road session has paid for itself I reckon.
Especially as they wouldn't take more than £80 for the hour they quoted me! Despite it being my fault.

Rob Gaskin
24-01-2011, 09:59 AM
John, how does your 240Z perform compared to the Soarer with the same engine. I'm interested in knowing what the weight loss did for the engine - has it retained the same charactersisics (I'm assuming it's a soft lazy sort of tune) or does it feel more sporty now it doesn't pull so much weight.

I was taken around Castle Combe by Steve Francis in his V8 240Z (Rover engine at the time). It was quite strange, it didn't rev (or need to be) and so it didn't feel sporty - but was quick.

Has the extra weight affected handling.

johnymd
24-01-2011, 10:35 AM
The soarer always felt a quick car but was very smooth. The santa pod times were 14.1 @ 98mph. In the Z, the power comes in with a real bang at around 2500rpm and you loose traction in most gears when it does. I think as the weather warns up this won't be such a problem. Weight distribution shouldn't be a problem as I've set the engine a lot further back than the Z one. Looking at my 1/4 mile terminal speed and dyno HP I would say the car may be lighter rather than heavier but I'm not sure. Loss of traction in a straight line is not a major problem as its very predictable but I can't say the same about accelerating out of the bends as its far too easy to loose the back end. I guess it will get better as my confidence grows. I've been bitten a couple of time already and been suprised I got away with it. I need to do some track day to find the limits.

Rob Gaskin
24-01-2011, 11:01 AM
That's quite interesting John and sort of backs up my thoughts. I think having a car that loses traction easily is hard to drive quickly and saps confidence.

What I would say to you at this point though John is buy some good tyres. Track tyres will improve traction no end but I also found that they breakaway very progressively (on my car anyway) when warm. They will make a huge difference and you would be wise to divert your attention in that direction now that the car is running well. Of course improved braking without lock-up is another useful benefit.

You watch any form of motorsport - tyre choice and wear will be at the top of everyones mind. The recent Monte Carlo Rally was all about tyre choice - even on the dry days.

johnymd
24-01-2011, 11:52 AM
Tyres have been on my mind for a while now but it doesn't stop there. Ideally I'd want to swap to 8" rims as well so what was £800 for tyres is now nearly £1400. Much as I'd love them, that's just not an option at the moment. I need sponsorship! or a seconhand pair to get me started. Not haveing a large disposable income really gets in the way of my fun!

Rob Gaskin
24-01-2011, 12:54 PM
John, lots of people are in the same boat these days that's why there are so many cars for sale. You have modified your car as cheaply as poss to get that sort of time - you deserve a pat on the back. :bow: Mind you, you have lost a Soarer in the process!

There is no way I would spend that sort of money either (no really ;)). There are always s/h wheels for sale - I bought two sets of 7 x 15 off this site. Then keep an eye on ebay for track tyres. You have to scout about - there is a guy in Hinckley who races a Fiesta and uses 15" tyres so I've had a few from him for next to nothing. I also bought some 18" Dunlop track tyres for my 350 for £10 each (still legal off a roadgoing Porsche). :thumbs:

What I have learnt though is to keep a set of wheels and tyres for road use and MoTs.

datsun dave
24-01-2011, 02:04 PM
Keep a eye out on the parts for sale.

£80.00 for a set of 4 15" wheels from Pmac and a set of free new Dunlop track day tyres from Dave Jarman.

And a tube of Autosol.

samuri-240
24-01-2011, 07:25 PM
I have a set of 16x8 Rota's fitted with michelin cup sport tyres, wheels & tyres only done 100 miles from new, asking £695.

johnymd
24-01-2011, 08:07 PM
£80.00 for a set of 4 15" wheels from Pmac and a set of free new Dunlop track day tyres from Dave Jarman.

Thanks Dave, I'll take them..............:D or are you just showing me what I've missed:smash:

I have a set of 16x8 Rota's fitted with michelin cup sport tyres, wheels & tyres only done 100 miles from new, asking £695.

Very tempted as these are my wheels of choice but the tyres would need to be A048's. I'll keep my eyes open for track tyres and squeeze them on my existing wheels.

240z
24-01-2011, 09:12 PM
Gizzmo MS-2 fitted this week and dynoed Thursday and most of today. Lots of faffing around and swapping boost controllers as the boost indication was all over the place with the controller working sometimes. Turned out to be my fault as I cut into the wrong wire from the map sensor, oops. They were very under standing but took the **** out of me all day today. Although the car spent nearly 2 days on the dyno it was only the last 2 that were really productive. The car runs loads better, no fuel cut and running 14-15 psi with no creap. Fuelings good and boost is up to 10psi by 2000 revs.

HP at the wheels was 293 @ 5300.
Torque was over 300ft/lb between 4300 and 5000.
.

Great stuff - I think it sounds very similar to mine, bear in mind my power was at the hubs, not the wheels. Having said that my best terminal speed has been 114, so it would seem to be down on power to yours at the track... dead impressed with what you have done, hope to catch up with you and the car soon. :bow:

Where did you go for the set up by the way, where they knowledgeable about 1JZs?
http://zclub.net/gallery/data/2/medium/402OEU361J_dyno1.gif

johnymd
24-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Thanks Phil. The HP figure of 293 at the rollers seams to be backed up with a 117.47 terminal. I'll have to get the car weighed but I don't think its lighter than most. The rolling road pride themselves on accurate rather optimistic figures and will not give engine HP as it would only be a guess. I'm surprised mine is this high given how standard it is.

Look forward to meeting up soon and comparing cars, especially down the strip.

johnymd
12-03-2011, 08:51 PM
I've been having too much fun in the Z lately and after the Jap car meet at the Halfway House last night, I waved goodbye to my clutch. I thought is was starting to slip a bit in 4th and 5th but its now doing it in 3rd as well. Looks like my ali rad is going to be pushed to the back of the list again :(

Been searching around and it looks like its going to be over £100 for the 3 bits. Not looking forward to fitting it as that gearbox looks HEAVY.

SKiddell
13-03-2011, 12:44 AM
Respectfully JP, £100 for a clutch (even a friction disc) is cheap and performance clutches are not cheap.

PS dont for get to bring some decent brakes to Mallory.....your gonna need them:devil:

Mr.F
13-03-2011, 01:39 AM
looks like its going to be over £100 for the 3 bits

Is that a typo? You left a 0 off, right? Or are you thinking of a friction disc faced with hardboard from B & Q?

johnymd
13-03-2011, 09:22 AM
hardboard from B & Q?
Hadn't tried them, I'll check that out today!

Soarer clutches are a bit thin on the ground but after a bit of research I find the 3.0i supra turbo with a 7mgte uses the same clutch. The bonus is there's loads around and there a lot cheaper. The standard/"performance" versions range from £102 to £254 but essentially appear the same. Around the £100 mark they are made by Sachs,Valeo or A C Delco. For £154 I can get what is described as the best organic clutch you can buy. Panther do one for £73 inc delivery but I didn't want to get into the budget market :)

These are all for the pressure plate, friction plate, release bearing, and delivery. From what I've read, most people are happy with these single plate type clutches as long as you don't go over 400hp.

PS dont for get to bring some decent brakes to Mallory.....your gonna need them
Your right Steve, brakes are going to be a problem but I only have 2 choices. Go with the brakes I've got or don't go at all. Maybe I should leave the car in the garage and
not use it until I can afford all the mods I want to do. Should be back on the road in 2013 then.

Rob Gaskin
13-03-2011, 10:34 AM
Your right Steve, brakes are going to be a problem but I only have 2 choices. Go with the brakes I've got or don't go at all. Maybe I should leave the car in the garage and
not use it until I can afford all the mods I want to do. Should be back on the road in 2013 then.

You're right John just come along and see how your brakes perform. TBH if you are doing one track session you are only on track for 15 mins and you'll probably be following a slower car for some of that. Drive to the brakes you have just like the 'Bentley Boys' did. The good news is the run-off area at the hairpin is a lot bigger now.

Clutch - mmmm, I fitted a standard 280ZX clutch to my 240 after my engine mods and it never did cope with upchanges to 3rd without slipping. My current Centreforce 2 is ok, if you are going to be doing Santa Pod then you don't want slipping. Perhaps investigate a bit more, what does Phil E use?

Mr.F
13-03-2011, 12:30 PM
as long as you don't go over 400hp.

...or use the RH pedal.

johnymd
25-03-2011, 09:19 AM
Started my rear end upgrades (no I'm not going down the gym and spending time on the step machine). Finally decided on a length for my hybrid companion flanges and had the parts machined on Wednesday. Took them to the welders and now I have a pair of hybrid 260z/280zx flanges of the correct length to allow me to use my modified 280zx manual CV axles. The mod to the axles will consist of shortening the spigot on the endcap. Once I’ve got the companion flanges bolted up with the 260z stub axles I’ll be able to measure exactly how much the spigot has to be shortened. I’m hoping to have shortened the companion flange enough to not have to do any other mods to the axles but if they are still too long or closer than I’d like, I’ve still got the option of rotating the inner CV carrier which reduces the length by another 20mm. The diff’s away at the moment having the quaifes swapped from a 3.9 to a 3.7 so It won’t be back together until mid next week. I’m aiming for Santa Pod on the 2nd April. I’ve also got to remove the gearbox to swap the clutch so it looks like I’ll have a busy next week. Hopefully there will be enough room to get the box out without removing the engine as well.

Rob Gaskin
25-03-2011, 10:30 AM
The mod to the axles will consist of shortening the spigot on the endcap. Once I’ve got the companion flanges bolted up with the 260z stub axles I’ll be able to measure exactly how much the spigot has to be shortened. I’m hoping to have shortened the companion flange enough to not have to do any other mods to the axles but if they are still too long or closer than I’d like, I’ve still got the option of rotating the inner CV carrier which reduces the length by another 20mm.

Nice welding John. I'm trying to understand the spigot/endcap/inner CV carrier set-up. Are you saying the splined shaft that does into the diff (Spigot?) might have to be stortened? And how does rotating the CV carrier reduce the length?

Just wanting to understand things John :unsure:

SKiddell
25-03-2011, 10:59 AM
Just some thoughts JP

The trick to clubman 1/4 miling is getting the 1st 60 ft absolutely as perfect as possible....get that wrong and its all over, you may as well take your foot off and cruise over the line because you cannot make up for time lost at the start line.

Likely result of the move to a 3.7 is that your 60-foot times will increase.

For a measure of 60 ft times you should be in at least the high 1.8's, any higher than that and your quick, but not as quick as you could be.

The + side of the coin is that you will have a little more left in your finishing gear (4th ?) and it may be in a better part of the torque curve rather than at the end or past it.

What are your 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear ratios ?

johnymd
25-03-2011, 12:33 PM
Rob
The spigot I am referring to is the dimple on the outer CV cover. It is there to provide a pocket for the spring to sit in when the shaft is fully compressed. I may have to reduce the length of the spring and the dimple. This dimple sits inside the companion flange. After the the companion flange is bolted up to the stub axle I’ll be left with about 15mm of space for the dimple to sit in. The dimple is currently 25mm so will have to be reduced in length. Its only made of thin tin so will be easy to modify. With regard to the other end of the axle, the splined part will go into the diff and will not be altered. The CV joint can be stripped down and the tripod carrier inside can then be rotated and put back together. This places the CV joint further in the shaft.

Steve
You may well be right but the reasoning behind what I’m doing is this: I have very little traction in the first 3 gears so to stop wheelspin I use less throttle. By changing the ration I should be able to use more throttle and still achieve the same times. From what I have been told, turbo cars should run a higher ratio than N/A’s in order to make boost lower in the range. Plus the fact my input bearing on the 3.9 is knackered so I’ve got to have the diff apart anyway. So, I’ll try the 3.7 and if it doesn’t have the desired effect, go back to the 3.9.

SKiddell
25-03-2011, 02:44 PM
I have very little traction in the first 3 gears
What tyres are you running ?

johnymd
25-03-2011, 06:39 PM
225 Michelin cup sport now, although my previous runs were with 205 BFG's so this should make a difference. I'm going to need to bring them back to life a bit with some Grip tyre softener though.

240z
26-03-2011, 01:09 PM
. Perhaps investigate a bit more, what does Phil E use?

I'm afraid mine is a custom made ceramic clutch with AP pressure plate, and it is for a W58 gearbox, not the R154 that Johnny has (the one I want!). So I can't help really..

johnymd
26-03-2011, 03:43 PM
I think the W58 and R154 both use the same clutch. On my search for a soarer clutch I've read that it's the same as used on a 7MGTE turbo or non turbo, which uses the W58.

1jzMkii
06-04-2011, 05:24 PM
I think the W58 and R154 both use the same clutch. On my search for a soarer clutch I've read that it's the same as used on a 7MGTE turbo or non turbo, which uses the W58.

Hi Folks,

Not quite true. The W58 and R154 definitely use different clutches. The W58 uses a push-type clutch, where the throwout bearing pushes against the lever fingers, and the R154 uses a pull-type clutch, where the TB pulls the lever fingers away from the flywheel. As I recall, the spline count on the input shaft is also different, but the main issue is the different actuation of the pressure plate. You can use the same flywheel, but not the same clutch.

phil.e
06-04-2011, 06:57 PM
For what it's worth, I run a Centreforce 240 clutch, 225/50/15 yokohamas, 4.375:1 plated LSD from Lawrence Evans, set quite tight, L24 overbored to approx 2569cc., standard gearbox, albeit rebuilt ,again by Lawrence Evans. Problem on the 1/4 mile is not from clutch slip but from lack of tyre grip.

Thanks.

SKiddell
06-04-2011, 07:10 PM
Apoligies for going off topic Johnny

Phil.e what tyre pressure do you run at the strip, on Toyo R888's I am down to 9 psi to get grip
The lower the pressure the larger the footprint
What sort of 60 ft timkes are you gettting
Also your diff is a very aggressive ratio.....

johnymd
06-04-2011, 10:31 PM
Not quite true.
Do you know this for sure?

From what I've read, and its only what I've read, the 1JZ-GTE soarer uses the same clutch as a MkIII supra. I've seen this question asked many time and the answer has always been to use the MkIII supra clutch. I'm not doughting you, I just need the answer as I need to order a clutch pretty soon. Any help greatly appreciated.

Mr.F
07-04-2011, 02:06 AM
As far as I can make out from my ACT catalog, the Mk3 (86-92?) Supra non-turbo uses the same clutch as the Mk4 non-turbo car and the Mk3 and Mk4 turbo cars use the pull type clutch, but different versions.
From 08/81 all non-turbo clutches are 236mm driven plate, Mk3 turbo is 236mm plate "pull" type and the Mk4 turbo is a 250mm plate "pull" type.
Kit part numbers vary due to different release bearings being used at different times.

I'm no Toyota expert and the ACT catalog is an American publication, so beware...U.K. and Japan may have different specifications.

johnymd
07-04-2011, 09:32 AM
The internet is full of misinformation and it looks like I've been caught out by it again. As said, the clutch on a soarer is different from a MkIII supra. The flywheels are different so the pressure plate are not the same. The friction plate however does appear to be the same.

johnymd
12-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Clutch now ordered. Gone for what Competition Clutches call a stage 4. It's basically an uprated pressure plate and 6 paddle ceramic disc. They say it will cope with drag racing and still be well mannered on the street. Should arrive Wednesday and I'm trying to leave Friday clear to fit it and replace all the rear wheel bearings. So it looks like Saturday at Santa Pod will be a OK for me. Can't let Darren get too far ahead at the start of the season by not showing!

Rob Gaskin
12-04-2011, 10:21 AM
I'm trying to leave Friday clear to fit it and replace all the rear wheel bearings. So it looks like Saturday at Santa Pod will be a OK for me.

John, I had to involve a machine shop when I replaced my rear shaft bearings. Two of them are pressed on to the shaft. Have you taken this into consideration?

johnymd
12-04-2011, 11:20 PM
Luckily I have a couple of places near me that will let me use their press to replace the bearing on the stub axles. It's getting the gearbox out and back in again on my own that's going to be the fun job. The R154 box is not a lightweight item like the Z one.

racer
13-04-2011, 12:00 AM
I can spare a couple of hours tommorow night john if that's any help?

johnymd
13-04-2011, 10:14 AM
Thanks for the offer Matt but it looks like I'll have to work late tonight. I'm going to have a chat with a couple of people today about using their ramp and a bod to give me a hand either tomorrow or Friday. Time to call in a few favoures.

johnymd
04-01-2012, 10:43 PM
Been a while since posting on this thread so a quick update.

The car has run very well over the last year and I've made a few changes but not many. I've mainly enjoyed driving it and put quite a few thousand miles on the clock. Still runs as well as it did and I've yet to do any upgrades to the engine. I have fitted a grifin ally rad from Summit racing which cured the overheating on trackdays.

I've broken the following:
Driveshaft
Propshaft
Diff
Engine mounts
Front crossmember

I've got a few upgrades planned and most of the parts have already arrived. These include:
Adjustable front and rear arms
Adjustable tie rods
New adjustable strutts by Gaz
Adjustable top camber plates
New wheelbearings all round
Rebuilt diff with all new bearings and seals
Custom diff front mount
Willwood front brakes
Dave Jarmen rear disk conversion
Custom turbo elbow and downpipe
Adjustable rising rate FPR
Lightened cromoly flywheel
Change clutch friction plate
NOS kit
R888's

All of the above have either arrived or on there way so I should be able to get started pretty soon.
Should keep me busy for a couple of weeks.

datsun dave
04-01-2012, 10:54 PM
Great list of parts some pictures please.

johnymd
04-01-2012, 10:57 PM
Soon. I've taken a few pics and I'm still trying to sync them from my iphone. I've not plugged it in for 6 months and it having a fit. May have to wait untill tomorrow morning.

datsun dave
04-01-2012, 11:00 PM
Soon. I've taken a few pics and I'm still trying to sync them from my iphone. I've not plugged it in for 6 months and it having a fit. May have to wait untill tomorrow morning.

You can always email them to yourself from the iPhone.

franky
04-01-2012, 11:16 PM
Have a look at the toyo r1r's too. Same compound a little more tread so 95% as good as r888's but better in the wet and cheaper to buy :)

racer
04-01-2012, 11:18 PM
Nice one John. Looking forward to seeing your new suspension set up.
If you need any help give me a shout.

johnymd
04-01-2012, 11:28 PM
I want the maximum grip possible without going for slicks so I dont think I'd be happy with the R1R's. Having said that, I had thought about getting a pair of slick just for the Pod.

Thanks for the offer Matt. As I havn't got a garage now I may have to use someones workshop and get them to help me. Trouble is it will have to be a drive in, change all the parts, and drive out the same day.

tel240z
04-01-2012, 11:53 PM
I want the maximum grip possible without going for slicks so I dont think I'd be happy with the R1R's. Having said that, I had thought about getting a pair of slick just for the Pod.

Thanks for the offer Matt. As I havn't got a garage now I may have to use someones workshop and get them to help me. Trouble is it will have to be a drive in, change all the parts, and drive out the same day.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I do have a pool car ;)

SKiddell
05-01-2012, 01:54 AM
Have a look at the toyo r1r's too. Same compound a little more tread so 95% as good as r888's but better in the wet and cheaper to buy :)

But the tread "width" isn't even close to the R888, that means that rubber actually on the floor is less

johnymd
05-01-2012, 08:14 AM
Tread width. Thats something I hadn't even considered. Assuming they would all be the same for the same size of tire.

franky
05-01-2012, 08:45 AM
But the tread "width" isn't even close to the R888, that means that rubber actually on the floor is less

thats because they've got a pattern designed to work in all conditions. R888's just don't work on cold/damp or wet days and take longer to get heat into in the dry.

If you drive on both I'd bet 50p you'd never buy r888's again.

johnymd
05-01-2012, 09:43 AM
Some pics:

SKiddell
05-01-2012, 06:17 PM
thats because they've got a pattern designed to work in all conditions. R888's just don't work on cold/damp or wet days and take longer to get heat into in the dry.

If you drive on both I'd bet 50p you'd never buy r888's again.


Tell you what, I will bet you £100 that a car running R888's will out perform the same car (same driver) running R1R's on a drag strip or a dry track, (I have no interest in a wet/damp track, thats a mugs game|)

I don' t give a rats ass about damp, cold, road noise, comfort, day, night etc
I only care about the best grip possible from a road legal tyre.

As a consequence the R888 is the best tyre for my purpose as its foot print is greater, the compound variants are suitable and the tyre wall is good enough for me to drop my pressure to below 10psi to increase the grip still further (measured and tried almost every tyre available)

But for general driving the R1R is a viable option...... but track day or 1/4 mile tyre it isnt.

But hey what the heck do I know

franky
05-01-2012, 07:38 PM
Tell you what, I will bet you £100 that a car running R888's will out perform the same car (same driver) running R1R's on a drag strip or a dry track, (I have no interest in a wet/damp track, thats a mugs game|)

I don' t give a rats ass about damp, cold, road noise, comfort, day, night etc
I only care about the best grip possible from a road legal tyre.

As a consequence the R888 is the best tyre for my purpose as its foot print is greater, the compound variants are suitable and the tyre wall is good enough for me to drop my pressure to below 10psi to increase the grip still further (measured and tried almost every tyre available)

But for general driving the R1R is a viable option...... but track day or 1/4 mile tyre it isnt.

But hey what the heck do I know

Sorry for the confusion I wasn't saying what you did or didn't know:thumbs:.

I was just saying as an all round sticky tyre the R1R's are a great choice, obviously dry track use only the 888's would be a few percent better but if you only intend dry track use then cut slicks might be an even cheaper option as there's plenty of used ones around.

They use the same compound and carcass structure with with added silica and a more 'cut' pattern to make them useable in none perfect conditions, a great one stop shop.

FWIW my old car was just as quick on them as 888's.

SKiddell
05-01-2012, 11:16 PM
The critisicms of the R1R range from block shift to overheating when pushed hard

As a performance road tyre and sometimes track substitute I am sure its great

datsfun
06-01-2012, 12:16 AM
I only care about the best grip possible from a road legal tyre.

As a consequence the R888 is the best tyre for my purpose as its foot print is greater, the compound variants are suitable and the tyre wall is good enough for me to drop my pressure to below 10psi to increase the grip still further (measured and tried almost every tyre available)



Dumb question but are R888 actually road legal? :eek: When I spoke to Camskill ( Toyo dealers who specialise in track day tyres), they said that R888 were road legal

1) for cars that were supplied new with them (like some Lotus + renault magane 260 etc ) and
2) other cars in general but only for "track use" and the trip to < > fro track days

So if your R888 equipped car is stopped outside John Lewis in Brent Cross on a sunday evening, the old bill (VOSA) can technically charge you for having tyres not fit for purpose...

Views welcome:confused:

I know that cops generally turn a blind eye to many mods done on cars, but

racer
06-01-2012, 12:23 AM
Yes they are road legal. Dot marked and in the MSA rule book as road legal/track tyres.
As are Yoki 48rs dunlop do1/2 js etc etc.

johnymd
06-01-2012, 10:23 AM
I did hear a while ago that the law was changing with regard to the legality of this type of track tyre. Not sure what the current situation is. I believe this was with regard to noise limits. I would think with all the electric cars apearing you would want noisy tyres so you could hear them coming, but that's another matter.

I'm very interested in other peoples views/experiences but from what I've read, the R888 gives the best bang for the buck with regard to ultimate grip and that what I'm looking for. I've managed to cope with the sport cups for the last year and from what I've read, the R888 are better in the wet so I think I should be OK.

zedhead260
06-01-2012, 10:23 AM
It's an old article (I can't find anything else more up to date), but November 2012 isn't far away now.

Trackday tyres to be outlawed | Car News | evo (http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/236977/trackday_tyres_to_be_outlawed.html)

zedhead260
06-01-2012, 10:54 AM
Link to DfT consultation paper (which is now closed)

[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Consultation paper (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/closed/motorvehiclessafety/consultationpaper)


"Wet grip limits
The proposed standards for wet grip are intended to ensure that safety levels are maintained as tyre designs change to comply with stricter noise and rolling resistance requirements.
The Commission has incorporated the wet grip requirements and limit values laid down by UN-ECE Regulation 117 into this proposal, with implementation dates covering new type-approvals from 29 October 2012 and all tyres fitted to new vehicles, and replacement tyres, from 29 October 2014. These requirements apply to Class C1 tyres only.
Whilst this requirement is uncontentious, some Member States and MEPs believe that the wet grip limits could be more stringent.
The additional cost to manufacture these tyres is likely to be only the cost to carry out an approval test that will add about 1p to the cost of a tyre."

UN-ECE Regulation 117 (http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r117rev.2E.doc)

Annex 5 - test procedure for measuring wet grip.

SKiddell
06-01-2012, 03:26 PM
As I understand it, the process will be that it will be illegal to "sell" any outlawed tyres from November 2012, then a period of grace will be allowed until they become illegal to "use" this will purge any left in the system, so in reallity we will have a couple of years to go, I still don't really get "why" though. If we were to look at the amount of accidents caused per year due to track day tyres I am sure it pails into insignificance against the amount caused by pissed up teenagers driving nicked cars.

zedhead260
06-01-2012, 04:10 PM
I am sure it pails into insignificance against the amount caused by pissed up teenagers driving nicked cars.

Yeah, they should make drink driving and car theft illegal too :D:D

johnymd
06-01-2012, 06:39 PM
Trouble is, the pissed up teenager in the knicked car has no money or job so is given a stiff telling off and let go. If he does it too many times they even tell his mum. The respectable performance car driver with track tires has a disposable income and can therefore by fined as much as they can get away with and will generally pay without being chased. Easy money!

Rob Gaskin
06-01-2012, 06:52 PM
Two points:

My track day tyres are better in most damp conditions than my road tyres (but not deep water I imagine). Proved at Donington - it was wet so my lad (David) came in and I changed it over to our road tyres. He went out and the car was worse.

Second - look around car parks and see how many people drive on almost bald tyres - women too with cars full of kids. It shocks me to think that they are on the road oblivious to it all and blame accidents on conditions.

johnymd
06-01-2012, 07:00 PM
Back to my mods. The pacelforce man came knocking again today. £170.36 to the seller and £23.05 to parcelforce.

datsfun
06-01-2012, 08:40 PM
Two points:


Second - look around car parks and see how many people drive on almost bald tyres - women too with cars full of kids. It shocks me to think that they are on the road oblivious to it all and blame accidents on conditions.

Two wrongs dont make a right?:rolleyes:...I cant see this being a good defence if you get pulled over for using trackday tyres on normal roads once law changes.

And in response to the supply Vs demand situation, one of my mates supplies tyres for performance cars and he told me that its getting increasingly difficult to get R888 / 048's etc . Once the law kicks in, I cant see availability beyond 12 months, especially in popular sizes.

Todays goods instalment ^^ looks awesome. Those parts are certainly going to see the toyzed get faster, quicker if you know what I mean:thumbs:

johnymd
06-01-2012, 08:57 PM
Todays goods instalment ^^ looks awesome.
Thanks, I really didn't expect them to not only look good but be really well made. For a budget ebay item I'm well impressed. Yet to see how they fit though. The downpipe will have to be cut about (the same as I modded the current one) but hopefully the dump pipe will fit OK.

toyzed

Not really got a ring to it. Any other suggestions?

tel240z
06-01-2012, 09:02 PM
2 seater lexus beater:smoke:

datsfun
06-01-2012, 09:23 PM
:odouble post

datsfun
06-01-2012, 09:24 PM
Not really got a ring to it. Any other suggestions?

SoreZed
LexZed

Budget Rocket...well maybe not anymore seeing what you have been buying;)

Mr.F
07-01-2012, 01:01 AM
Zex-us

racer
07-01-2012, 01:15 AM
Zex-Toy
Oops sorry wrong site!

Wyn
07-01-2012, 09:46 PM
Yet to see how they fit though.

Yep, let us know how you get on with removing the old O.E parts
I want to know how easy them ol lower rear arms/pins remove from the struts ?

Looked at mine today and it looks like the main pin? could be stuck fast :unsure:

johnymd
08-01-2012, 08:06 PM
I was talking about the turbo dump pipe when I mentioned fit as I know there could be problems and I'm sure it will need modding in some way.

With regard to the suspension bits, I'm confident they will be OK. I've removed the rear arm pins several times and never had a problem. Just need to be cairfull with the threads, although I wont be using the pins again so I could just use a round drift and a big lump hammer. The new arms don't use the old pins or a cotter pins so are easy to strip in future.

johnymd
20-02-2012, 08:03 PM
Spent the day at Terry's playing with the Z. Stripped off all the old suspension, brakes, diff, and driveshafts. Fitted the 2 front camber plates and started cutting the towers for the rears. Forgot to get new flywheel bolts so couldn't get on with this today. They will be in tomorrow so hopeing to do the clutch/flywheel after I get all the new suspension and brakes fitted. Could be a long day.

tel240z
20-02-2012, 08:22 PM
looks like the pizza's on you tomorrow night then john

franky
20-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Cool. Have you got your bits back from GAZ yet? Great build this.

johnymd
20-02-2012, 09:10 PM
GAZ only took a couple of weeks to do the sruts. I gave them the ground control top mounts which they modified to fit the dampers. The parts going on tomorrow are: Ground control camber plates, GAZ struts, Techno toys adjustable front and rear arms, Techno toys adjustable tie rods, Willwood AZ front disks and calipers, Dave Jarmen rear disk brakes, new bearings all round, and uprated front diff mount.

I also need to repair the front crossmember and swap the flywheel/clutch if I get a chance.

franky
20-02-2012, 10:03 PM
Are you happy with the GAZ stuff? I think the AZ front brakes are good move too, should be a bit lighter than a 4x4 caliper type setup.

johnymd
22-02-2012, 08:08 PM
Happy with the GAZ struts? I think so. I'll let you know.

Drove the car home today but didn't get time to change the flywheel/clutch. I finished all the suspension/brake upgrades yesterday, which left me with bleading the brakes and setting up the suspension today.

As with most modded parts for Z's, the rear disk kit was a real pain. The caliper brackets simple did not fit and required a fair amount of grinding/cutting to get them to fit onto the strut.

Some pics from yesterday and today:

johnymd
22-02-2012, 08:10 PM
Some more

GTR-240Z
22-02-2012, 08:48 PM
Looking lovely John your be the prettest loser at the pod :D

In case you didn't find that link for helping to set all the adjustable suspension up here it is
Alignment Settings - HybridZ (http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/60536-alignment-settings/)

Thats my hyperlink monkey duties over.

datsfun
22-02-2012, 08:58 PM
Wow, kits look amazing...we wait for feedback on the handling and braking:thumbs:

SKiddell
22-02-2012, 09:13 PM
Noble effort guys I will inspect closer from my rear view mirror......again:D

johnymd
22-02-2012, 09:22 PM
Noble effort guys I will inspect closer from my rear view mirror......again


You'll have to be quick. If I'm in your mirror its probably just before I lap you. :)

datsun dave
22-02-2012, 09:52 PM
You'll have to be quick. If I'm in your mirror its probably just before I lap you. :)


;)

Wyn
22-02-2012, 11:42 PM
John, lots of lovely bitties you have there :thumbs:

As your top plates aren't welded on? have you braced it up under them?
Do you need to?
Looks a lot of material removed from around them ?

Ian
02-05-2012, 02:39 PM
Those Gaz shocks look nice, I'm currently looking for a coilover setup and I am considering using Gaz, however I want a dual perch setup, do you now if Gaz can offer this?

I'd also want to have camber adjusters, although I;d rather mine were welded in, an I'd probably only have them on the front. With that big open area at the rear are you not worried about having a lot more road noise and dirt and water getting in?

johnymd
02-05-2012, 05:26 PM
Ian - they don't do that adjusts ride height without preload. You do get a bit of extra noise with the backs but no water/ dirt. I wanted to be able to adjust the top as we'll as the bottom and I'm so glad I did. I actually bought AZ weld in camber plates but didn't use them (for sale now).

Ian
02-05-2012, 06:02 PM
That sucks, it seems its not possible to get dual perch coilovers for the S30, I'm going to look into making my own, shouldn't be too hard, all I need is an aftermarket coilover with suitable spring rates from another car and a ss threaded tube to weld to the hub.

Or if I decide to go with camber adjusters all round then I can go for the AZC setup.


It might not be a problem anyway (although it is nice to be able to set the preload exctly how you want it) To get your car to your desired height how much preload ended up on the springs?


I take it you didn't use the weld in camber plates because that would have meant having to redo the paint? Or is there another reason? I assume Gaz would have been able to make their coilovers fit these to as thats what I might end up using?




Did you buy the AZC brake kit new from the USA? If so, how much did you get stung with import charges?





Thanks for your help and sorry for asking loads of questions.

Ian
06-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Was wondering how the car is handling now you've had time to set up the geo and time to drive it for a bit?




Also, if you could answer some of my above questions I'd appreciate it loads.

johnymd
11-08-2012, 11:49 AM
Just noticed your replies Ian, sorry.

Not sure how much preload was required. How do you measure it?

I Use the ground control camber plates for a number of reasons. I've seen them on loads of cars and they look really cool. They are easy to fit. You don't have to remove the wings and reprint the whole area. When you adjust them you don't chip off all your paint as they run up and down the adjusters. Not saying there is anything wrong with the weld on ones but these do the same job for less effort. I also like the design of the spring perch and shock mounig.

I got the brake kit second hand from the uk.

I love the way the car handles and being adjustable suits my varied uses for the car. I set the dampers to minimum on the road and the car has a lovely smooth ride and soaks up the bumps. No harshness even with solid mounts and rose jointed suspension. On the track I whined it up and it makes the car feel very tight and corners flat. The turn in is superb with absolutely no trace of under stear. The back starts to go, the harder you push it and could probably do with stiffer springs on the back. The rear camber plates allow me to quickly adjust the camber from track to strip.

To sum it up, I am 100% happy with all the suspension/brake changes BUT I have not been in another z to compair it with. Matt seams to think it handles very well so that's good enough for me.

johnymd
12-08-2012, 11:26 AM
Just a small update on the latest mod, which was actually a few weeks back now, and that's the installation of NOS. the reasoning behind this was; I wanted to go faster on the strip but didn't want to loose the reliability/drivability of the car in its current state. I love everything about the car and it's current state of tune is just about perfect for how I use the car, but I want to push my times in the hall of fame. NOS seamed to me to be the ideal solution. Extra controllable power that you can switch on for the the strip and leave off for all other times.

I basically spent a few hundred quid on some second hand bits and I've got a great, simple system. The 10lb bottle is mounted in the back and the 2 solenoids are fixed to the inner wing, just above the chassis rail. The nitrous line runs through the car to one of the solenoids and the fuel is tee'ed off in the engine bay. 2 short lines then go from the solenoids to the nozzle just ahead of the throttle body. There is a micro switch on the throttle to tell the minimax controller when to operate the system. The system is armed by a switch. Once armed, the controller will operate the solenoid based on the parameters I've set, only when it see's full throttle. I've been playing with the setting at the last drag race challenge and it's now set with an initial 30% duty, then increased to 100% over a 3 second period. This allows me the traction I need in the first 2 gears and gives me full use at the end of second onwards. The jets I'm currently using are pretty small but I will be increasing them soon. Because of the progressive control you don't get any shock loads on the car and don't notice much difference between having it switched on or off. I think it's giving me a .3s gain on my times based on my best time of 11.9 before it was fitted and 11.58 with it on. My 60ft times have come down to mid 1.8s but I think there is still more in the car without any mods so I'll be pushing to better the 11.53 in the hall of fame. The conditions on the day also seams to make a big difference so I'll need some luck with the weather too. My aim is to beat the 11.3 by the end of the year. This doesn't seam too far away but I think it's getting harder the closer I get. Maybe going up to a 75hp jet will get me there but I need to keep an eye on boost as at 18.8psi, I'm already pushing the limits of the standard twins. May have to keep my eyes open for a spare engine as eventually something's gona go.

Can't wait for next weekend. 2days of racing :)

Mr.F
12-08-2012, 12:17 PM
2days of racing

I take it you plan on doing North Weald anyway as your car is eligible?

johnymd
12-08-2012, 01:59 PM
That's the plan. I assume you just turn up as usual?

Mr.F
12-08-2012, 02:20 PM
I'm assuming normal rules apply.!

johnymd
10-03-2013, 11:50 AM
Took a day off from the house and went to Terry's to play with the Z.

Ive completed the first stage of the "Areo" kit. This involved ducting the air into and through the radiator/intercooler and makeing a front undertray.

After haveing a good look at the existing setup(and extensive research on the subject) it became obvious that most of the air would go under the intercooler and under the car rather than go through the radiator at speed. The first job was therefore make a plate to connect the bottom of the spoiler opening with the bottom of the radiator support pannel to stop this happening. The air can now only go through or around the intercooler but must pass through the radiator and into the engine bay. I also sealed the gap at the bottom of the radiator, just behind the rad support lower crossmember to stop air bypassing the rad. I think these mods along will have a massive impact on cooling at speed. While I was about it I've also made an ali undertray to link the rad support pannel and the front crossmember.

I'll look at the second stage of undertray when I have a bit more time.

I've bought an ali header tank which i'll be fitting soon. This will allow me to run the radiator full with water so increase the cooling. I'm pretty confident that these things will address my lack of cooling at speed and allow me to enjoy this years track time.

I'm still considering using waterless coolant in addition to allow for brief temperature spikes to occur without me loosing all the water.

datsun dave
10-03-2013, 11:58 AM
Some pictures please.

racer
10-03-2013, 11:58 AM
That should do the trick John. Got any pictures?

johnymd
10-03-2013, 12:03 PM
Car now back in the lockup and I didn't get a chance to take some pics. I'll get some later though.

Ian
10-03-2013, 03:41 PM
That should definitly have a big effect on cooling, without the panel beetween the back of the airdam and the radiator support panel you'd have been loosing a lot of cooling aitflow to the radiator.

Throttleton
10-03-2013, 04:28 PM
John I've read some patter that waterless coolant is a bit less efficient at extracting heat from the engine.
Might that be a problem?

johnymd
10-03-2013, 07:54 PM
I understand it is less efficient than water at transferring heat, just like antifreeze or other additives. We all use these though. Unlimately the best product for heat transfer is just water. You can add a corrosion inhibitor to it but a coolant will only decrease it efficiency. The main reason to switch to waterless coolant is to cope with excess hot spots and not boil/ gas due to it. An engine can cope with over 120c, but the water can't . It will start to boil and expand rapidly on contact with the engine hot spots. Then next thing you know, you've lost all your water and the temperature rapidly rises. That's the way I see it from the numerous articles I've read. Everyone will have their own opinion and I'm very interested in the arguments/reasoning against it.

SKiddell
11-03-2013, 10:46 AM
An engine can cope with over 120c, but the water can't .

#Pedant mode on#

At normal atmospheric pressure, water boils at 100 degrees C but in a pressurised system under boyles law this can be much higher.

#Pedant mode off#

johnymd
11-03-2013, 10:58 AM
You may have missed my point Steve. Under pressure, water in the cooling system can reach around 120c without boiling due to the fact its under pressure. I was just stating that above this the water won't be able to cope and will boil. I should of made this clearer so thanks for pointing it out as it makes it clearer for others reading.

tel240z
11-03-2013, 12:15 PM
have a read

Red Line Synthetic Oil - WaterWetter® Coolant Additives - SuperCool with WaterWetter® (http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=117&pcid=10)

while on subject neat ehtylene glycol has a high boiling point, about 180-190 c

SKiddell
11-03-2013, 01:11 PM
I got the point.:thumbs:

it makes it clearer for others reading.

That is precisely the reason sir

You know me I like facts and figures to be right as I belive that good science lead us towards an answer.

johnymd
12-08-2013, 09:53 AM
Not updated for a while so I thought I'd stick something here.

Fitted an innovate afr gauge yesterday that took most of the day. Just need to put the software on my laptop and have a play. My reasoning behind this gauge is to allow me to monitor this and keep an eye on my drag runs. It's also to keep a check on the afr after I fit the new go faster goodies that have just arrived.

I've never really spent any money on engine mods so I thought it about time. People tell me speed costs and I now know what they mean. I've just blown all my annual budget as the bits below cost the best part of £700. Brian Crower responded well to my email and knocked $200 off the list price for their bc264 cams. Got a pretty good deal on the sprockets from a uk company and Ron Kidell sold me an ecu and full loam at a knockdown price.

johnymd
12-08-2013, 09:54 AM
Cams

johnymd
12-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Sprockets

franky
12-08-2013, 12:58 PM
What's the specs on the cams? More midrange or top end? Did you get to the bottom of your cooling issues?

We all love shiny parts!

johnymd
12-08-2013, 03:39 PM
Cams are mild but do extend the top end a bit. The 1j does tend to start dropping off its power after 5900 and these allow to to extend to 7000. The general opinion is a good all rounder that needs no other mods for it to work well.

With regard to cooling, the car performed perfect at Spa with not even the hint of overheating diring the whole session, which was a massive improvement over last year. The car did start to overheat at Donnington though. The tempereture was very high that day though, so I still need to look at other ideas.

johnymd
12-08-2013, 03:43 PM
The cams are BC264's with a lift of 8.74mm and duration of 264.

Ian
13-08-2013, 01:27 AM
Very Nice, will be some weapon with them fitted.

Ian
13-08-2013, 02:17 AM
Just had another look over your project. Its pretty interesting. I'm considering a 2JZ Twin Turbo myself as it more reliable than an R26. I guess the actual mounting of a 2JZ would be very close to your setup.

johnymd
13-08-2013, 09:03 AM
I think the 1j/2j are both great engines for a Z.The engine mounts were a bit of an issue and I'm still not happy with one of them. For the RB you can but off the shelf mounts and its generally a straightforward swap. The 1j/2j mounting points are a long way back on the block so cant be used. The passenger side was pretty east as once the PS and air con pumps were removed you have some extra mounting point and more room. The drivers side is a bit tighter and you cant quite get the mount far enough forward to reach the old Z crossmember mount so I had to step it back.Not ideal as its trying to swist all the time. It broke my old crossmember upstand but this one is holding up so far. I will have to address this problem. I didn't want to go down the normal route of welding in a crossmember between the chassis rails and I still dont think its the best way of doing it.

The 1j is a great engine and I think I've proved just what you can get out of it in standard form. The 2j is the engine to go for if you want more power as it has huge potential without changeing internals. The 1j is probably limited to around 500hp before you have to spend serious money.

I've had a couple of skylines and the RB's are truely great engines. The 25 was a silky smooth GT even in the non turbo form and would have made a great choice for a car you wanted to drive everyday. Not massive power but a very comfortable, still quick, car. The 34GTR with the RD26 was a bit more brutal (mine had a set of cams from the factory) but could still be driven everyday, if you could afford the fuel. I think you may be right about the reliability though as I had numerous problems with the 34. The normal crank angle sensor and coil pack issues along with an intermitent "running on 5" problem that I still dont know if I fixed. They may be a bit too highly strung for my liking. Still the best looking engine around though with the metalic painted rocker covers and keeps it in the family.

Ian
13-08-2013, 11:48 AM
I would also be hoping I could use my old crossmember, don't really want to weld on another, but I think you could probably bolt one in place.


RB's are definitely nice when they are running properly, and its definitely a nice looking engine which I like, much better looking than a 2JZ would be. I also like that the RB is kind of an evolution/progression of the series and comes from the same family. I guess I'll just have to see what comes up after some more research.

johnymd
09-09-2013, 09:39 PM
Had a spare few hours today so popped over to Terry's to swap my cams and sprockets over. It was actually a pretty easy job and would have only taken a couple of hours had I not had a few hiccups. I won't go into detail but the belt tensioner was I knight mare as I didn't want to take the under tray off. The rest went very smoothly once I'd done the correct conversion from fit lbs to n m. Then I left a pipe off so it run lumpy. After connecting everything properly it then run smooth for all of a couple of seconds before running extremely lumpy again with an afr of 10. Eventually I notice the inlet sprocket had slipped on its adjuster and was now several degrees out. Resetting this restored a nice smooth tickover and I set off home. Afr stayed at 14.6 under general driving and at tickover. I've not tried it in anger yet as I want to put it on the rollers to set the cam properly. It still drives very nicely with no apparent loss of low to mid range. Ill pop in the dyno this week and post up some results.

racer
09-09-2013, 09:47 PM
Nice one John. Look forward to seeing the Dyno sheet. Did you fit your new piggy back Ecu?

johnymd
09-09-2013, 09:51 PM
No, I'll just use the one Toyota made. Ill see what the fuelling looks like at the RR.

bumblejon
09-09-2013, 09:52 PM
Like it needs anymore power..... holy sh@t it's quick, I've never been in a car that quick to ..... ahem...... 70mph.....

Thanks for the demo yesterday John, now all you need is some anti-squeal shims for your brakes!!!

JP.

johnymd
09-09-2013, 09:59 PM
No probs John. The trouble with fast cars is, they don't feel fast after a while. Another 50 or so HP should keep me happy for a little while. These cams should give me a lot of that and it looks like I won't lose the drivability.

johnymd
11-09-2013, 12:54 PM
Just got back from the RR. I wasn't really sure if the cams would make much difference at all as I know the turbos are the limiting factor. By playing with the cam timimg and resetting the AFR with the FPR they managed to achiece just short of 400HP at the flywheel which was 363 at the rollers uncorrected. We finally setled for the tune I've included with the peak power reduced to 392HP and a generally better curve. Torque was also pretty good with a peak of 377ft/lbs. We didn't do any runs with the NOS but I expect it to add around 70HP to these figures(100HP jets). On the road the car drives really well and pulls smoothly, even from very low revs.

I would have liked to see over the 400 mark but I'm still very happy with the results and think these cams will help when I carry out further mods maybe next year.

racer
11-09-2013, 01:19 PM
Wow! That's a superb result John. The torque is massive. I notice the peak power doesn't drop of too quickly at 7k wich should be usefull at the the pod.
Have you got your old sheet so we can compare the curve? That normally tells a bigger story than just the numbers.

johnymd
11-09-2013, 02:42 PM
I'll have to check for the old chart. They didn't have it on the system for comparison. I'm pretty sure the old hp was 360 and 300ftlbs. The first run today made 380hp and the cam adjustments made the 12hp.

tel240z
11-09-2013, 08:43 PM
Talk about bang for your buck John :D:D:D

franky
11-09-2013, 10:24 PM
That a whole lot of engine. I like how its just not a fat lump in the middle.

Rob Gaskin
11-09-2013, 10:37 PM
I fear a few more drive-shaft problems.:o

Keep it smooth Johnny - impressive figures for a 240Z.

johnymd
11-09-2013, 10:48 PM
I may have to start stockpiling them Rob.

The car shows no signs of lumpy cams. Drives just as nice as before....only quicker :)

andrew muir
12-09-2013, 10:10 AM
But its not really a 240z anymore is it ?:)
I am not knocking what Johny has done, he has built an extremely rapid car, which from the outside looks like a nice nearly stock 240z, but it has little in common to driving an original or even tuned 240z or 260z.
Johny admits himself that he gets bored with the power eventually?:eek:
I am not sure if all those hybid 240s etc are really good for the marque in the long term?,
You don't see many Etypes with other than original engines in them!



I fear a few more drive-shaft problems.:o

Keep it smooth Johnny - impressive figures for a 240Z.

johnymd
12-09-2013, 11:42 AM
I still consider my car to be a 240z. It still handles and looks like a well sorted 240z. The log book still say 240z. If you run with an engine from a datsun 280zx, is the car still a 240z? I will never get bored with the power. I do get used to it but never bored. I think I've created the perfect z and wouldn't change a thing about it. I love my car in every way and think the engine conversion was the best thing I ever did to the car. The car is also a hobby for me and I enjoy the engineering side of it.

johnymd
12-09-2013, 11:56 AM
I'm not sure that hybrids are a bad thing. Just look at all the mk1 escorts around with cosworth or ztec engines. They tend to be worth a lot more tha one with standard 1300 engines. Most people nowadays tend to like cars with a bit more grunt and tend to modify older cars by fitting more modern engines. I think this is a much more accepted approach.

I think it's a case of each to their own and you are allowed to do what you like to your own car. There's no right or wrong way.

datsun dave
12-09-2013, 12:49 PM
But its not really a 240z anymore is it ?:)
I am not knocking what Johny has done, he has built an extremely rapid car, which from the outside looks like a nice nearly stock 240z, but it has little in common to driving an original or even tuned 240z or 260z.
Johny admits himself that he gets bored with the power eventually?:eek:
I am not sure if all those hybid 240s etc are really good for the marque in the long term?,
You don't see many Etypes with other than original engines in them!


Its still a 240z :).

Have a look at what Eagle are doing with the Eagle Super Sport running a 50% power increase on the original car, the alloy 4.7 engine runs 6 throttle bodies and has a ECU.

OR

You can have a bespoke rebuilt Jensen Interceptor R fitted with a GM LS3 V8 or go with the Supercharged option.


Classic car shape BUT running modern engines.

andrew muir
12-09-2013, 02:38 PM
I knew I would create some debate!
Hi Johny, your taking it too personally, I admire what you have done to your car and I know it looks great, and goes like stink!! It will have taken a lot of thought and skill to get everything running correctly etc.
I am aware that it is obviously registared as a 240z, but does it really feel like a 240z?
That is what I am getting at.
I am in no doubt that it will feel a lot quicker, possibly quieter (turbos etc) and the gearchange will be a lot slicker with a shorter throw and less notchy. it will handle better more rubber camber etc and brake better.
In other words you have taken a 240z and inproved on it in most ways!:bow:
My point is that it is the many flaws which make a 240z a 240z!

I am well aware that I have changed my gearbox (which works great, thanks!) but it still is notchy and slow compared with a s14 and still retains the original feel if you like. I have changed other thinks Radiator and switched to electronic ignition. These make it perform better marginally but don't take from that old 70's feel in my opinion.

I am not saying hybrids are wrong and in many ways they are a great method of getting more zeds on the road.
Not sure about taking a minter and butchering it though!
I am just not sure if it enhances the zed brand name etc, to modify them to extremes.:unsure:

johnymd
12-09-2013, 03:06 PM
There's nothing wrong with debate Andrew. I feal that there will never be a winner though.

The Z's have always been modified and its what drew me towards them in the '80's. much more so than the tr's and mg's of the time. Big Sam and the other samuris were appreciated back then and are still accepted today being modified 240z's. there values has not dropped despite being modified and not fealing like an original 240z. Lots of us try to improve the z handling and looks. Some even fit modern gearboxes, throttle bodies, ecu's and uprated brakes. These things all change the feal of the cars but do not seriously reduce its value.

andrew muir
12-09-2013, 05:47 PM
Yer right there is no right or wrong.
But the forum was getting a bit boring:):)
I guess what we are talking about is period mods or modern mods.

The monetrary value of the car is unimportant to me. But the way it is viewed by other car enthusiasts is!

The reasons why I chose to buy a zed was its looks and the noise of the L6 motor.
So for me changing the motor is a no no, it may be because I am an acoustical engineer that the noise is so important.:eek:

I have lots of plans for mine but will try to keep them to period etc.
For example I hate the heavy steering but Iam loath to fit power assist as that would change the cars feel totally. But I appreciate that for many power assist will make it easier and more comfortable to drive.

I also intend to use my car for long drives to Italy Austria etc. So anything I do needs to make it more reliable not less.
Eg vented discs but using original calipers, lighter balancer and flywheel, electric fan etc to reduce parasitic load from engine.
New cam, and flowed intake etc.lower ratio diff.
I already have a 280zx gearbox and 6branch headers and a larger stainless exhaust. Slightly lowered stiffer suspension and Tokico shocks.

It will be interesting to see whch of his cars Terry prefers, once he is finished building his hybrid?

johnymd
12-09-2013, 06:57 PM
Terrys 2 cars will be totally different so yes, it will be interesting which one stays and which goes.

Anyway, here's a clip of one of the dyno runs. The HP figure is at the wheels and uncorrected.

Dyno run cams1 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/j5nDMNsTbSI)

andrew muir
12-09-2013, 07:23 PM
Best to keep both cars I would have thought!!:D

Yes loads of grunt, surprisingally noisy dyno!!
Don't get me wrong I like loads of power and to go quick, I was banned for a year and a £1000 fine when the police couldn't catch me on my bike. I have the video as proof!:rofl: I should put it up on Utube sometime.:D
Never had a point on my licence since though!! learnt the hard way!

johnymd
12-09-2013, 07:30 PM
First run on the dyno.

Dyno run2 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Mkago7b2OZg)

johnymd
12-09-2013, 07:50 PM
In this video I let a few trade secrets slip out of how to install adjustable cam gear.

240z 1JZGTE cam timing? - YouTube (http://youtu.be/-036uLngH2Q)

johnymd
12-09-2013, 07:52 PM
I'll have a dig through the rest of the 3hrs of video and try and find a few more snipets of tech stuff.

Ian
12-09-2013, 09:21 PM
Nice figures there, must be really quick with that power.

Regarding, Hybrids, I love driving my 260Z the way it was before the work I've just carried out, the engine is good and I like the feel of it, but I also feel its letting the car down, I just feel like it needs more power and if it had more power I'm sure I would enjoy driving it even more, sure I'd miss the sound of the carbed L6 but its not like the new straight six will sound bad. I plan to keep the feel of a 260Z while having better handling, braking and power, done correctly I can't see why this isn't possible.

The most important thing is that you (the owner) like your car and enjoy driving it, who cares about the value or what anyone else thinks, my car is for me.

Dream would be to have a classic Z with basic original upgrades and a nicely tuned L6 as well as a Hybrid Z. Perhaps one day.

tel240z
12-09-2013, 10:43 PM
In this video I let a few trade secrets slip out of how to install adjustable cam gear.

240z 1JZGTE cam timing? - YouTube (http://youtu.be/-036uLngH2Q)

Can I book a couple of hours of your time when I put my shrick cams in the M3 John rumour has it your the man :lol:

johnymd
12-09-2013, 10:53 PM
There's no point in trying to give people the impression you know what your doing when you don't. They will learn the truth in the end so you may as well let them know your an idiot right from the start.

tel240z
12-09-2013, 11:14 PM
your so modest john ! anyway I may keep them both I'm just sorting a 20' heated container now for the blue one over winter while I complete the orange one
Yep sure two different cars one smooth and sound proofed with a luverly sound and enough grunt with p/steering LSD S14 box and tyres that send you all over the place on the motorway lorry tracks, the other probably, noisy harsh quite fast (is it true that M3s are limited at 155 mph :eek: ) and should sound quite nice oh and there both N/A straight 6s

Looking forward to the next drag race John ? I am ;)

Rob Gaskin
12-09-2013, 11:20 PM
First run on the dyno.

Dyno run2 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Mkago7b2OZg)

That Dyno sounds like Hubert's Supercharged 280ZX :eek:

Hybrids, mmmmm I thought like you at one time Andrew. However John's car makes you realise that these 240Zs can handle a lot more power than an L6 can give. The thrill for me is experiencing performance that these cars shouldn't be able to deliver. It's very intoxicating and to be honest the boy racer inside you makes you laugh when Supercars are left behind.

I'm also a vintage car fan and it was common practice to put oversize engines in a small 'special' (or supercharge it) and experience thrills that the standard motor couldn't give. It's just another form of motoring enjoyment.

The great British special building era began in the years after the First World War when motor racing was split into two camps. On the one hand, Brooklands provided glamour, spectacle and celebrity drivers. In contrast was the busy sprint and hill climb scene supported by amateur enthusiasts from all walks of life. These short events offered an opportunity for the impecunious amateur constructor to apply imagination and ingenuity, and he frequently equaled or even beat the works drivers in their expensive 'proper' machinery. The combination of a lightweight chassis and a powerful engine worked wonders at low cost

johnymd
13-09-2013, 09:28 AM
It is very noisy inside a dyno. Because the engine and car are so quiet, you can hardly hear them above the mechanical and ventilation noises in the booth.

andrew muir
13-09-2013, 12:14 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like hybrids fine, and in an ideal world I would have a tuned L series S30 and a Hybrid S30 to scare the 911 drivers. If I had hybrid I would probably go the whole hog and fit power steering modern gearbox and good sound control etc; but to think they would drive the same would be dillusional, the modern hybrid equiped car would be much better.:eek:




[QUOTE=Rob Gaskin;202622]That Dyno sounds like Hubert's Supercharged 280ZX :eek:

Hybrids, mmmmm I thought like you at one time Andrew. However John's car makes you realise that these 240Zs can handle a lot more power than an L6 can give. The thrill for me is experiencing performance that these cars shouldn't be able to deliver. It's very intoxicating and to be honest the boy racer inside you makes you laugh when Supercars are left behind.