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Mr.G
26-02-2009, 09:58 PM
I'd like to convert my 240Z halfshafts to 280ZX Turbo CV halfshafts on my 240Z which already has an R200 installed.

Can someone confirm if they will be a straight bolt in to 240Z stub axles?

I've also heard of some people sourcing 260Z or 280Z stub axles and having the Modern Motorsports adaptor welded to them, which I believe is supposed to make it all stronger?

If I could just use my 240Z stub axles it would simplify things and make the conversion cheaper.

Has anyone gone down any of these routes? Any tips or photos of the conversion would be great.

Thanks!

datsun dave
26-02-2009, 10:25 PM
Hi George,

Sorry mate they will NOT bolt onto the 240z stub axles, i have this set up and have the Modern Motorsport adaptor that bolt in place of your original 240z ones.

Also the 280zx turbo driveshafts are handed so make sure that you fit them the right way round.

Zed2k
26-02-2009, 11:27 PM
Dave I would have thought you would have gone for a R230 300zxtt axle setup, which I am looking at!!
I thought you could change the driveshaft flange side of the stub axle with the 280zx cv ones, but might be wrong they suggest using 260z> hubs as they are alot stronger. Still haven't decided which way to do on the backaxle. yet

datsun dave
26-02-2009, 11:37 PM
I bought them with lots of bits from Black Bug at a great price just hope that i do not break them.

samuri-240
26-02-2009, 11:43 PM
Dave I would have thought you would have gone for a R230 300zxtt axle setup,

I had an R230 complete with drive shafts here gave it to the scrap man a couple of weeks ago :eek:, could not get any interest in it even at 99p

Zed2k
27-02-2009, 01:18 AM
Oh ****** would have had that off you, never mind, the R230 setup is in my opinion unbreakable, but cost involved in making the halfshafts are what killing it at the moment, what we need to do is get a few sets made up and lower the cost. you need 2 pairs of drive shafts and use the 4 inners and some Modern motorsport flange adapters but need the shorter halfshafts which will probably cost over 500 before they land on the doorstep.

Nigel Brook
27-02-2009, 08:38 AM
The 280zx stub axle flanges will fit the 240 stub axle but are too long. I'm currently trying to figure how, and to what length, I need to reduce them to.

Mr.G
27-02-2009, 09:59 AM
Thanks for the replies.

Dave did you use 260 or 280Z stub axles then?

I took a look at the MM website and there appears to be two adaptors that they sell for this conversion, I am non the wiser as to which one I need.

Billet 280ZXT CV Adaptor, 70-78 Z at 395USD:
Welcome to Modern Motorsports Ltd! (http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=63)

or
70->78 Z - 280ZXT CV Conversion Package
225USD
Welcome to Modern Motorsports Ltd! (http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=5)

Can someone let me know what the difference is.

These are the turbo halfshafts I purchased from ebay, which arrived yesterday:
eBay Motors: Datsun 280zx turbo C/V axles, LOOK! NR! (item 310120910408 end time Feb-08-09 19:25:20 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310120910408&ih=021&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=)

rallymanDP
27-02-2009, 10:51 AM
George - as I know that you do not want to spend a lot of money ( and indeed do not need to do so ), on this conversion, the simple answer is :-

a) The Late 280ZX Driveshafts will fir straight into the R200 Diff, but they are, as has already been said, handed. If I remember rightly, the shorter of the two splined shafts fits into the left-hand Diff output ( i.e. the nearside ). It will be a tight fit - you need to remove the thin end plate & make a new one without the 'cone' part, from alloy or thin steel.

b) Both of the Half shafts where they meet the Driveshaft need modifying with a 6-bolt Halfshaft flange taken from the Donor 280ZX Hub to be welded onto the 240Z inner face.

This by far the cheapest way of doing this conversion, as the US kits are very well Engineered but are only doing the same thing as I have described, at a considerably higher overall cost.

I have a printout of the conversion details which I can photocopy & send you if you want to give me a call.

zedhead260
27-02-2009, 11:08 AM
George - as I know that you do not want to spend a lot of money .................................................. ....... the simple answer is :-




George, if this is the case then perhaps the simple answer is to keep the stock set-up. I think it is a bit of a myth that regular half shafts with UJ's are weak.

Besides, there has to be a break point somewhere.
I'd much rather replace a half shaft UJ than rebuild a diff.
I'd much rather replace a half shaft UJ than the damage caused by a shattered prop'.
I'd much rather replace a half shaft UJ than rebuild a gearbox.

Are you really putting that much power to the wheels ?
What tyres do you intend to use ?

Mr.G
27-02-2009, 02:38 PM
All, thanks for the replies.I don't mind spending money on this set up, but if there is a more cost effective way then that would make sense.

Duncan - I'll give you a call, thanks.

Rob - I take your points on the UJs, I also do not want to be stranded somewhere if they fail. Power will be between 250-300hp, no idea yet. For the short term I will be using 225 AVON Turbospeeds. And I do plan on getting a Quaife LSD fitted into my R200.

If you still think it may not be necessary to do this conversion then please let me know, I don't want to do this if it's not really necessary.

zedhead260
27-02-2009, 03:08 PM
If you still think it may not be necessary to do this conversion then please let me know, I don't want to do this if it's not really necessary.

In your application it may not be necessary, but I must admit to doing mod's and conversions purely for the sake of it myself.

All adds to the **** factor in my opinion :thumbs:

260Z TT
27-02-2009, 09:07 PM
I converted my '78 260z to S14 viscous LSD unit, into a 3.9 R200.
Using 280zx outer flanges on 240z hubs, with the S14 inner flange into LSD.
Had new driveshafts made up to suit, using all original nissan joints, inner and outer.
Shafts are so short, the cv boots actually touch eachother!
Cost of one off shafts was 220 the pair.
Purchased the S14 diff and driveshafts for 200 from a breakers 7 years ago, when I did the conversion.

Zed2k
27-02-2009, 09:30 PM
Can you give us the name of the driveshaft guys thanks.

260Z TT
28-02-2009, 10:46 AM
Nick,
Managed to dig out the number for you.
They can also shorten and specialist weld the std S14 shafts which are very long. I made the mistake of cutting them after some one elses say-so, but then this company said I should have left it to them to do, just give them the total length of shaft required!

North West Propshafts
Regency Works
Regent Street
Coppull
Nr Chorley
Lancashire

01257 791681

johnymd
06-01-2011, 11:19 PM
An old thread but its not been talked about for a little while.

So what have people done to use the CV shafts?

I'm using UJ's but think I need to go to CV's. I been gathering bits but need some help on the final bit of the puzzle. I got a pair of 280zx 6 bolt axles, 280zx companion flanges, 260z stub axles, and 260z companion flanges. I think that's all the bits to do the conversion. Dave J suggested I machine and join the 280zx companion flange to the 260z companion flange and this is the way I'd like to go. So, what's the final dimmension of the finished companion flange and has anyone got any advice to give me on the subject.

johnymd
06-01-2011, 11:22 PM
Also, is there a difference between 280zxt and 280zx 6 bolt axles?

rallymanDP
07-01-2011, 12:45 AM
Johnymd - Dave J has described exactly how to do the conversion, but you should note :-

a) The 260Z Half Shafts have a different number of splines to the 240Z and will not fit the 280ZX Flanges, so you will need to source a 240Z set;

b) The newly modified setup to the nearside needs to be as thin as possible in order to fit the Tripod type Driveshafts into place ( because of the added width of the R200 Diff ). Even so, you will think that they will not compress enough to do so, but indeed they will - though you may need to remove the studs first and then tap them back into place afterwards to secure the shafts.

datsun dave
07-01-2011, 09:08 AM
Welcome to Modern Motorsports Ltd! (http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=5&PHPSESSID=6871a436d0e576db41d04a3dccee4b71)

Go have a look at this conversion package as this is what i am using.

ben240z
07-01-2011, 09:20 AM
still running standard 240z shafts with UJs and using avon very soft compound hillclimb slicks.
In 15 years of running the car I have only had 3 UJs break only one of these was on a very aggresive start. The othe 2 went coming out of a corner.
I have seen numurous CV jointed drive shafts break on much lighter cars
In my opinion there is no need to change the shafts. The engineers seemed to know what they were doing when they built the cars back in the 70s
As far as 240z shaft availability I have a company that can make replacement shafts thatare lighter and as strong as the standard item.
I will go back under my stone now and carry on TVR baiting

johnymd
07-01-2011, 10:38 AM
Johnymd - Dave J has described exactly how to do the conversion, but you should note :-

a) The 260Z Half Shafts have a different number of splines to the 240Z and will not fit the 280ZX Flanges, so you will need to source a 240Z set;

b) The newly modified setup to the nearside needs to be as thin as possible in order to fit the Tripod type Driveshafts into place ( because of the added width of the R200 Diff ). Even so, you will think that they will not compress enough to do so, but indeed they will - though you may need to remove the studs first and then tap them back into place afterwards to secure the shafts.
The reason I've bought 260z stub axles and matching companion flanges is the higher spline count and I've read they are stronger.
You wouldn't happen to have any dimmensions for the finished companion flange?

Go have a look at this conversion package as this is what i am using.
I have emailed them a couple of time now about shipping to the UK but never had a responce and their ordering system doesn't cope with outside the USA. If some has a set for sale I'd be interested though (I think you need to go R230 and sell be yours!).

still running standard 240z shafts with UJs and using avon very soft compound hillclimb slicks.
In 15 years of running the car I have only had 3 UJs break only one of these was on a very aggresive start. The othe 2 went coming out of a corner.
I have seen numurous CV jointed drive shafts break on much lighter cars
In my opinion there is no need to change the shafts. The engineers seemed to know what they were doing when they built the cars back in the 70s

Good info and I am really tempted to stay with the UJ's, just don't want to be wrrying about braking one and be stuck somewhere. I value your opinion so would you say the standard UJ's are as strong as CV's? The other fly in the ointment is my UJ's are old and probably seen better days. Plus the fact I already have the parts to do the conversion, just need to find someone to do the companion flange mod.

Thanks for all that contributed.

ben240z
07-01-2011, 10:48 AM
brand new UJs on the shelf if you decide to stay standard

Rob Gaskin
07-01-2011, 11:16 AM
I know people may get a bit fed-up of my posts as they are very predictable but here goes:

I've only ever had standard shafts, never had a problem - I've not even dismantled/greased them! I have two spares, after reading about breakages on rally cars (e.g. Duncan and Hugh) I used to take a spare to trackdays but stopped that a while ago.

Yes I know I don't have lots of power, or an LSD, or big slicks etc etc but just backing up Ben's experiences who does have the above! However I do have 260 halfshafts which as has been said before have a 'chunkier' spline. I needed to replace a 240 halfshaft and Pmac had a pair of 260 shafts which he recommended I use.

John - the 'buzz' you get from that turbo kicking-in may necessitate a driveshaft upgrade - I don't know. Perhaps Ben has been lucky. But it might just be worth seeing how you go on with the standard shafts.

johnymd
07-01-2011, 12:22 PM
I've been driveing around with the standard shafts and the more I drive the more I think why change. I'fs just the though of being stuck somewhere with no drive. I think my best aproach, after listening to all the advice would be to use the car as is and try and get the companion flanges modded (which shouldn't cost much). Then if I do have a problem or when I get round to it I can swap the bits over.

Thanks again.

Rob Gaskin
07-01-2011, 12:38 PM
I've been driveing around with the standard shafts and the more I drive the more I think why change. I'fs just the though of being stuck somewhere with no drive.

Carry a spare and a 14mm spanner. You know it'll never break if you do that :thumbs:

zedhead260
07-01-2011, 03:25 PM
Join the RAC.

rallymanDP
07-01-2011, 05:51 PM
Ben - in the 70's the Engineers designed the 240Z with Driveshafts which were made to a budget price and which would cope with around 140bhp.

Nowadays we are putting nearly twice that amount through parts which are 35 years old.

The fact that every one of us who has rallied a 240Z and has broken them should determine that they will not reliably handle that sort of power - and my point here is about reliability.

Yes, you may get away with the standard items in the short term - but why live with something that you know can be guaranteed to fail in the not too distant future - especially when there is a simple solution available ?

johnymd
07-01-2011, 06:32 PM
Been to see a guy called Ted this afternoon. Took over the bits and explained what I wanted done and he's quoted me 20 to do the machineing. This guy's been used by Z club members to modify S13 boxes and he seams to know what he's doing. I now need to work out the finished size for each side and get back to him. I'll take some pics and get the some drawing done in case anyone else wants any (can't garrantee the same price though).

Even got a contact number for the next bit of land so I can start another new build so quite a successful Friday. Haven't broke that to the wife yet!

Rob Gaskin
07-01-2011, 07:35 PM
Duncan yes I fully understand and I was at Silverstone the day you broke a shaft and it spoilt your day on the Roger Clark Super Special stage event. I am right in saying it broke on the jump (track cross-over)?

Hugh broke one on the first stage of the Isle of Man rally and it basically cost him about 2k in rally costs.

I think someone has broken a shaft at Santa Pod too.

What shafts did Harpel use on the Safari 240Z anybody know?

I was just pointing out that the standard shaft will take quite a lot of stick. However if I was competing I'd probably upgrade too.

datsun dave
07-01-2011, 07:47 PM
I have broken two drive shafts a gearbox and a diff at Santa Pod "the good old days"

And not all at the same time and i was lucky that Keven Irons used to live up the road from the Pod and would bring out replacemen parts for me and Mark Rayner to fit so i could get home.

samuri-240
07-01-2011, 08:34 PM
Is there any visual way of telling 240 &260 driveshafts apart without splitting them ?

Rob Gaskin
07-01-2011, 08:59 PM
Is there any visual way of telling 240 &260 driveshafts apart without splitting them ?

Do you mean driveshafts or halfshafts (the hub end)?

If halfshafts then yes, they have a couple of 'lumps' on the hub centre, visible in centre of the wheel.

Dave, thought it was you!

Nigel Brook
08-01-2011, 11:05 AM
Been trying to find the definitive length of the companion flanges for fitting the CV shafts for some time with limited sucess. One of the problems is the "top hat" grease seal on the end of the shafts which also acts as a stop for an internal spring pushing the shaft back to its normal position. If the companion flange is reduced too much then the seal cannot be fitted. I note that the MSA adaptors increase the available shaft travel by around 2". Has anyone fitted the MSA flanges and have they checked for binding ? I'm assuming the MSA system utilises the seal.

Rob Gaskin
08-01-2011, 11:44 AM
Been trying to find the definitive length of the companion flanges for fitting the CV shafts for some time with limited sucess. One of the problems is the "top hat" grease seal on the end of the shafts which also acts as a stop for an internal spring pushing the shaft back to its normal position. If the companion flange is reduced too much then the seal cannot be fitted. I note that the MSA adaptors increase the available shaft travel by around 2". Has anyone fitted the MSA flanges and have they checked for binding ? I'm assuming the MSA system utilises the seal.

A few pictures would be good here Nigel. I haven't any CV shafts to look at.

johnymd
08-01-2011, 01:07 PM
been looking at the difference between 240z and 280zx driveshafts when compressed. The 280zx will compress another 15mm, ie: be 15mm shorter when fully compressed. I had forgotten about room for the center bit that sticks out on the 280zx. I know these have been modded before so you would think someone would have alll the info required for the optimal length. I'll have another look today but hopefully someone who has done the conversion will chip in.

Nigel Brook
08-01-2011, 02:37 PM
been looking at the difference between 240z and 280zx driveshafts when compressed. The 280zx will compress another 15mm, ie: be 15mm shorter when fully compressed. I had forgotten about room for the center bit that sticks out on the 280zx. I know these have been modded before so you would think someone would have alll the info required for the optimal length. I'll have another look today but hopefully someone who has done the conversion will chip in.

Trouble is 15mm is not enough when fitted to the R200 diff, then there is the "top hat" as well.

johnymd
08-01-2011, 02:58 PM
Trouble is 15mm is not enough when fitted to the R200 diff,
Not quite sue what you mean by this. I'm currently running a R200 with 240z driveshafts and I don't think its binding. The 280zx shafts are shorter so let chance of binding with the same length companion flange. Are you saying I need to make it a lot longer to allow for the top hat? What if I remake to top hat shorter and grind a bit off the end of the shaft?

Nigel Brook
08-01-2011, 03:45 PM
To keep things simple? my preferred solution is to use a modified zx companion flange to accomodate the top hat and allow enough movement in the shaft. This is why I'm looking for the modified length of the zx companion flange which is way too long in its standard form. You are presumably using the standard flange which is already shorter but won't facilitate the top hat of the zx shaft. I don't think you will need to grind the shaft but you will need some way of accomodating the top hat. The MSA kit seems the way to go for you.

johnymd
11-01-2011, 09:21 AM
Just had a thought. Modern motorsport make an adaptor for use with CV's on a 240z. This is basically a modified companion flange (as most of you probable know). I know this is the correct length so all I need to do is find someone with these adaptors and get them to take some measurements. Then I just have to make my adaptors the same length.

So who can measure one for me?

johnymd
11-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Nigel. I remember reading about modifying the 280zx companion to use on a 240. From what I recall it was just a case of altering the dust shield. I'll have to have another look for the article. I'm not sure if the spline count is 25 or 27 though. 240 is 25 but I want to use 260 axle which is 27 so this may not be an option.

Nigel Brook
11-01-2011, 10:22 AM
Just had a thought. Modern motorsport make an adaptor for use with CV's on a 240z. This is basically a modified companion flange (as most of you probable know). I know this is the correct length so all I need to do is find someone with these adaptors and get them to take some measurements. Then I just have to make my adaptors the same length.

So who can measure one for me?

That's what I meant when I mentioned the "MSA" system ( brain fade ! )

Nigel Brook
11-01-2011, 10:26 AM
Nigel. I remember reading about modifying the 280zx companion to use on a 240. From what I recall it was just a case of altering the dust shield. I'll have to have another look for the article. I'm not sure if the spline count is 25 or 27 though. 240 is 25 but I want to use 260 axle which is 27 so this may not be an option.

280zx wont work in its standard form. I know some US owners have fitted them but the shaft travel is on its limits. Splines are the same as the 240. I'll post up some pictures when I dig the shafts and flanges out.

SKiddell
11-01-2011, 10:34 PM
Standard untis have be used (all be it with decent UJ upgrades) on seriously powerfull cars, a couple of years ago there was an Aussie who built a soft top S30 and used a 571HP VG30DET, he still had standard drive shafts, we discussed it on here (Oh ye with short memories)

http://zclub.net/forum/general-discussion/8976-aussie-z-convertable.html


http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5/datsunundercar0016ql.jpg

More info here
CONVERTABLE V6 TURBO 260Z (VG30DET) Datsun - Classic Zcar Club (http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25392)

Nigel Brook
12-01-2011, 03:51 PM
Pics as promised.

GTR-240Z
12-01-2011, 05:44 PM
Just had a thought. Modern motorsport make an adaptor for use with CV's on a 240z. This is basically a modified companion flange (as most of you probable know). I know this is the correct length so all I need to do is find someone with these adaptors and get them to take some measurements. Then I just have to make my adaptors the same length.

So who can measure one for me?

What measurements do you need John, if you dont mind waiting till the weekend I can take some from mine.

johnymd
12-01-2011, 07:29 PM
Interesting info Steve. I hadn't seen that thread.

Thanks for the pics Nigel.

The measurement I need is the total length of the comanion flange. When on the car you could measure from the mounting face of the outer part of the companion flange. Thanks Darren and I can wait as he can't start the machining untill late next week.

johnymd
12-01-2011, 08:55 PM
Been taking some measurement tonight.

280zx companion flange = 80mm
240z companion flange = 51mm
280zx driveshaft compressed = 355mm
240z driveshaft compressed = 390mm

280zx total = 435mm
240z total = 441mm

So I think you would need to reduce the10 to 15mm to be on the safe side. I thought you could lose a bit when you cut n shut the 2 companion flanges but after taking some measurement I don't think you can. The hybrid flange will need to be the same length as the 280zx original. There is a mod to reduce the axle length by reversing one of the CV's but I can't find how much you gain from this.

GTR-240Z
12-01-2011, 09:47 PM
I had a look through my old rebuild pictures looking for a picture of the modern motorsports stub axle companion flange and this is the only one I have, may not be of use but you never know.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2025/dscf0119g.jpg

johnymd
12-01-2011, 09:50 PM
Just found the info and the 280zx shaft is reduced by 12mm when you reverse the outer CV cage. All the info says you only need to shorten the drivers side(RHD) but when I measured the shafts on the car, with the wheels hanging, they both measure the same! Does anyone think it would be ok to shorten both axles?

johnymd
12-01-2011, 09:56 PM
Thanks Darren. That does look about the length of a standard 280zx companion, which is what I was hoping as it confirms what I believe. I'm happy now to go ahead and get the new flanges made 80mm total length and I'll reverse the cages to give me the clearance.

Nigel Brook
13-01-2011, 09:40 AM
So what effect does reversing the CV cage have on the overall up and down movement of the shaft?

johnymd
13-01-2011, 09:45 AM
Not actually sure Nigel. I know when you reverse the cage it moves the CV mounting face by 12mm. The shaft will still be the same length though so I'm not sure how that effects the top hat.

GTR-240Z
16-01-2011, 02:31 PM
I measured my companion flange length and its 60mm

SeanDezart
16-01-2011, 02:38 PM
I'd like to convert my 240Z halfshafts to 280ZX Turbo CV halfshafts on my 240Z which already has an R200 installed.

Can someone confirm if they will be a straight bolt in to 240Z stub axles?

I've also heard of some people sourcing 260Z or 280Z stub axles and having the Modern Motorsports adaptor welded to them, which I believe is supposed to make it all stronger?

If I could just use my 240Z stub axles it would simplify things and make the conversion cheaper.

Has anyone gone down any of these routes? Any tips or photos of the conversion would be great.

Thanks!

I'm in the process of having some custom made - nearly ready to test and make several sets to sell on.

Mr.G
16-01-2011, 02:47 PM
Originally I was going to upgrade and having heard both sides of the fence from people who have had the stock ones fail and others who haven't and had more power then I will ever need go though them, i've decided to leave as be for the time being.

I have 280ZX turbo CV shafts I imported from US a while ago when I was thinking of upgrading, if of help to anyone, I can measure them or take close up pics. It'll have to wait a while as I wont be going to the place I store my bits for a couple of weeks.

Nigel Brook
16-01-2011, 06:23 PM
As I understand it the US turbo shafts and the late UK zx shafts are one and the same.

johnymd
16-01-2011, 10:15 PM
I measured my companion flange length and its 60mm
Is that the total length, with it removed from the car? or the length of the part you can see when its installed?

GTR-240Z
16-01-2011, 11:43 PM
The length is from the flange that mates to the back of the hub/strut housing to the otherside where cv attaches. It was done while on the car so granted I dont have very good access to measure accurate.
The car is going to be round Mikes in a fortnights time having new rear dampers fitted so I could get better measurements while its off the car or you could pop round when I collect on the Saturday and have a look yourself.

johnymd
17-01-2011, 10:33 AM
That's fine. I just neaded to know how to compare that measurement with my flanges.

Thanks Darren

johnymd
27-03-2011, 09:42 PM
Well I've had my custom flanges made 15mm shorter than standard 280zx. The total length is 65mm. I will therefore need to reduce the top hat on the dust cover by 15mm. I'm guessing I'll also need to shorten the spring? Does anyone know what the purpose of the spring is? and what would happen if I removed it?