Starter motor issue when hot

[Rob Gaskin]

Guys, on Saturday when I got to Donington I had a starter issue. I had been in a queue and so the engine-bay was hot. I parked-up but we needed to move the car a few feet to line it up nicely with the others. Came to start it and it wouldn't turn over. Mark Rayner was standing next to it and he said that it is a common problem with these starters when they are hot. I was advised to get a 280ZX high-torque motor.

When the car had cooled it was fine again but had I switched my car off in that queue I'd have been in trouble.

What motor do other guys use?

Where can I get one from?

Cheers.

ps Jonathan had never had the problem and I haven't with other Zs but I don't like cars that won't start. The Sam is actually the best starting Z I have owned (under normal conditions).

 

[jonbills]

I’m still using the original 260z starter my car came with. It’s never not turned the car over.

 

[toopy]

I’m still using the original 260z starter my car came with. It’s never not turned the car over.

Same here, i always thought the starter was one of the most reliable parts of the car, as no one ever mentions them being a problem

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Yeh but you guys haven't got a high performance Samuri engine ;-)

I think the same and I usually stick with 'stock' if poss but Mark Rayner 'knows his Zs' and I did have the problem.

https://zcardepot.com/gear-reduction-performance-starter-s30-s130.html

 

[toopy]

Yeh but you guys haven't got a high performance Samuri engine ;-)

I think the same and I usually stick with 'stock' if poss but Mark Rayner 'knows his Zs' and I did have the problem.

https://zcardepot.com/gear-reduction-performance-starter-s30-s130.html

But that's also over twice the price of a standard one, if you only had the problem happen in the hot weather at Donnington, i would be inclined to replace with a standard, albeit new starter. The hot weather could just of been a coincidence, or it could of exacerbated an already failing starter no?

On the other hand if the Sam is higher compression (i have no idea) then an uprated one would be the pertinent choice

 

[Rob Gaskin]

That's what I like someone convincing me to save money. It's usually the opposite on here.

 

[IbanezDan51]

Mine packed up after removing it from my datsun during the restoration. Refitted it and 50% if the time wouldn’t crank over. Replaced with a new standard replacement and it wizzes over now.
If you want onenon dads shipment on the 20th? I think... let me know.
Dan

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Thanks Dan.

These are my starter motors the big one is on the blue car and the shorter one on the Sam.

Chris Roberts are you near your Turbo? I'd love to see a pic of the starter (yes I know I'm sad).

Also surely there should be a fusible link on the Sam (260Z)? I've fitted a new one on the blue car (Maxi Fuse).

Another interesting thing is that motors I've seen on ebay have the solenoid positioned between the top lug and the inner wing, whereas mine are between the top lug and engine?

 

[Farmer42]

When you say it "wouldn't turn over", do you mean it just went "click" when you turned the key. If so, it is the solenoid plunger expanding and not moving enough to contact the inner motor electrode that conducts the power to the motor that throws the gear wheel into place. You may also just get a whizzing noise without the engine turning over. Either way, any good auto electrician should be able to sort it without going to the expense of a new one. I had the solenoid contacts replaced on an old Nissan Sunny a few years back & it worked fine afterwards.

If however, everything engages and it just doesnt turn the engine then there is a lack of power and that could be a couple of reasons. Either your starter is not strong enough to crank the engine over which, if it turns over when cool, doesn't sound the case or there is a resistance in the wiring from the switch or battery that is not allowing enough current. Simply buying another starter motor may not cure it and you would have wasted your money. I would advise getting a resistance check and/or a solenoid check done by an Auto Electrician.

It may sound simple but are all your contacts on your starter and battery tight and clean?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

When you say it "wouldn't turn over", do you mean it just went "click" when you turned the key. If so, it is the solenoid plunger expanding and not moving enough to contact the inner motor electrode that conducts the power to the motor that throws the gear wheel into place. You may also just get a whizzing noise without the engine turning over. Either way, any good auto electrician should be able to sort it without going to the expense of a new one. I had the solenoid contacts replaced on an old Nissan Sunny a few years back & it worked fine afterwards.

If however, everything engages and it just doesnt turn the engine then there is a lack of power and that could be a couple of reasons. Either your starter is not strong enough to crank the engine over which, if it turns over when cool, doesn't sound the case or there is a resistance in the wiring from the switch or battery that is not allowing enough current. Simply buying another starter motor may not cure it and you would have wasted your money. I would advise getting a resistance check and/or a solenoid check done by an Auto Electrician.

It may sound simple but are all your contacts on your starter and battery tight and clean?

Hi Paul, yes I understand your reasoning but when cold it's fine. The solenoid is ok but the motor hadn't got the power to turn the engine over. I could always swap motors as a test of course.

Mark Rayner's comment makes me think it can be the motor. Mark is very experienced with Datsuns ex Datsun mechanic, now Porsche and builder of Datsun engines including his Twin Turbo 260Z.

Thanks for your input, I know you are a practical guy like me.

 

[Mr.F]

Supplied a couple of 280ZX turbo high torque starter motors recently. Customer feedback says they are a direct replacement fit - no issues.
Give me a call...

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Well this should sort it. Old and new (huge and heavy).

The solenoid is in a different place but no problem and it works fine.

Haven't tested it when very hot yet.

 

[MaximG]

Had the same problem with mine. Was ok when cold but when hot was very lacklustre in turning over. Ended up picking up a new old stock 280z one off eBay which works a treat.

As for the old one I still have it in the parts bin with a view to getting it referbished at some point.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

The one on the car was not very old but small and 'unbranded' so not a trusty Nissan unit - I think it was more suited to a 4 cylinder Datsun. Not sure what happens when they get hot but I would have thought it was easier to turn a hot engine that a cold one.

 

[yellowz]

The one on the car was not very old but small and 'unbranded' - I think it was more suited to a 4 cylinder Datsun. Not sure what happens when they get hot but I would have thought it was easier to turn a hot engine that a cold one.

Doesn't everything get a bit tighter when it expands?

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Guys, I haven't updated this for a while.

My Samuri has a bigger and better starter now (as mentioned above) and has been improved however the biggest difference has been since I replaced my battery leads and improved the connections. I had the type of battery clamps that had two screws to hold the cable - I have now soldered the new cable to the clamps. I also fitted a lead from the -ve battery-post to the body (which it didn't have). I had an earth lead from the engine to the body.

Anyway the improved cabling has made a significant difference and it spins really quickly now and 'fires up' immediately.