Speedhunters S30 car feature

[bigblock]

And woe betide anyone using wilwood parts on the highway/street.

 

[datsfun]

Complete nonsense I'm afraid.
I have 8 seasons of racing under my belt with these tyres and, every one of witch had a wet race at some point. I also drove too and from the curcuits in all weathers up and down the country. These tyres are superb in the wet due to there soft compound and overall design. Of course I wouldn't recomend you drive at 100mph in standing water as the tread depth is less than an average road tyre, as would be a worn (But still Legal) set of chinese ditch finders. It's these tyres that will fall foul of the European legislators if they don't pass the minimum safety/noise/enviromental standards soon to be introduced.

Matt

There is no denying that you have the on field experience working with these tyres and many of us (myself included) are keyboard warriors so your experience and feedback is in-valuable.

But and there is a big BUT...everytime I have spoken to performance tyre suppliers and specialists, who do fast road and trackday tyres (toyo, dunlop, yoko, kumho etc), I have been diplomatically advised not to use R888/A048's etc for road use ( strictly driving to < > fro trackdays only. Camskill who are one of the largest suppliers were blunt and made lots of reference to the fact that these tyres should not be used for fast road use and will be a liability if you are involved in an accident. I suspect being a very large and national supplier, they probably are aware of lawsuits and other cases pending about using these track day tyres on the road.

In my opinion, they are as much a danger on the roads as stretched tyres...why ? These performance tyres need ambient temp to perform 100%...unlike most branded road tyres (not cheapo chinese budget spec units)..but they are not illegal and until such a time, they will remain popular with folk who want to get the best grip on the road..

 

[SeanDezart]

Bunch of wusses ! R888s are fantastic - just point straight, lift off the loud pedal and cross your heart with BIG surface water.

TR1s are the better road tyre as an all-rounder - you pays your money......

 

[datsfun]

Bunch of wusses ! R888s are fantastic - just point straight, lift off the loud pedal and cross your heart with BIG surface water.

TR1s are the better road tyre as an all-rounder - you pays your money......

Umm the debate isnt which is the better road tyre R888 or T1R .

The initial comments revolved around stretched tyres and their safety on road cars and the thread has evolved into what about using trackday tyres on road cars and safety ?

Lets not be blinkered with the obvious performance and handling upside of these tyres only...

 

[racer]

Guys
I think you’re missing the point. All tyres are a compromise one way or the other.
The performance Bias will vary towards Price/road or track performance. You can’t just say that all track tyres are dangerous on the road and should be banned because you don’t want to use them. That’s just ridiculous.

All manufacturers and suppliers will always cover their ar ses of course against lawsuits, that’s just common sense.
There has always been paranoia about this type of tyre. All I can say is go and try them for yourself before you pass judgment without the experience to back it up.

 

[datsfun]

Guys
I think you’re missing the point. All tyres are a compromise one way or the other.
The performance Bias will vary towards Price/road or track performance. You can’t just say that all track tyres are dangerous on the road and should be banned because you don’t want to use them. That’s just ridiculous.

All manufacturers and suppliers will always cover their ar ses of course against lawsuits, that’s just common sense.
There has always been paranoia about this type of tyre. All I can say is go and try them for yourself before you pass judgment without the experience to back it up.

Matt

I have taken the liberty to use your above statement which works for the other camp too as well..

Guys
I think you’re missing the point. All tyres are a compromise one way or the other. You can’t just say that all stretch tyres are dangerous on the road and should be banned because you don’t want to use them. That’s just ridiculous.

All manufacturers and suppliers will always cover their ar ses of course against lawsuits, that’s just common sense.
There has always been paranoia about this type of tyre. All I can say is go and try them for yourself before you pass judgment without the experience to back it up

 

[amocrace]

Originally Posted by amocrace
strange then that having talked to Toyo technical this week i have just bit the bullet and on their recommendations ordered some R1R's for use where there is standing water!! but maybe Racer knows better than the manufacturers of said tyres. At Spa my car pulls 160mph+ along the Kemmel straight and there is often standing water. i did ask the question about using the wet SG compound on R888 as opposed to the usual GG but followed their recommendations and ordered R1R


Of course I don’t claim to know more better than the Toyo technical department. If you ask them witch of these tyres is better in standing water then, of course they will say the R1R.
It is after all the more road bias tyre out of the two. There own marketing says it’s for performance road driving.
Your car must be very powerful to pull 160 down any straight at Spa. I would be genuinely interested to know the spec, but I don’t think I would do 160 down any straight with standing water on it
Regardless of which tyre I had fitted.

I refer you to your original quote

Originally Posted by amocrace
there are also discussions going on to make 'improved' sports tyres i.e. Toyo r888, yoko ao48 etc illegal for road use. i personally agree with this because this type of tyre and standing water is an instant recipe for aquaplaning and chucking the car off the road.

Why would you agree with this when it is clearly not the case that these tyres are dangerous in standing water? As long as you don’t do 160 mph of course.
Please could you retract this statement as it’s not helpful to people who are considering purchasing this type of tyre to have fun with.

no i will not retract my statement. it clearly says I PERSONALLY AGREE! IF YOU DON'T THINK I SHOULD HAVE A PERSONAL OPINION TOUGH!

 

[racer]

Ok that's fine. Just as long as we know that your opinions are just that and, are not based upon any personal experiences or facts.

 

[Dale]

Ok that's fine. Just as long as we know that your opinions are just that and, are not based upon any personal experiences or facts.

Did you miss post #26?

 

[SeanDezart]

Umm the debate isnt which is the better road tyre R888 or T1R .

The initial comments revolved around stretched tyres and their safety on road cars and the thread has evolved into what about using trackday tyres on road cars and safety ?

If you haven't noticed the debate has moved on and is now several debates !

Stretched tyres (imho) = dangerous. I think it's a silly (stupid ?) look which gains nothing for driveability and (for me) after all a car is for driving or leave it in its' carcoon and trailor it to take pictures.

My opinions on the two tyres I quoted ARE based upon experience (of them and of hard driving whether on or off the track).

Probably racked up more miles than most of you too in both situations.........never mind pro and faily mileage.

 

[Rob Gaskin]

Guys I have lots of experience of track tyres both on and off track - like Matt.

They work very well in the dry (as expected) but the car tram-lines - like my 370 actually.

In the damp and light rain they are fine too. In fact at a wet Donington once I changed over to my road tyres (with lots of tread) and they were worse. Ok they are old so probably hardened.

Modern road bikes use tyres which are more or less track tyres. They must be legal

In heavy rain I drive slowly - and that's the issue, we all should of course but lots of folks just think modern cars will grip in any conditions at any speed. Therefore I assume tyre manufactures and distributors have to advise not to use them on the road.

 

[SeanDezart]

In heavy rain I drive slowly - and that's the issue, we all should of course but lots of folks just think modern cars will grip in any conditions at any speed. Therefore I assume tyre manufactures and distributors have to advise not to use them on the road.

Me too and maintain a longer distance....but we need to be protected from ourselves.....

 

[amocrace]

Ok that's fine. Just as long as we know that your opinions are just that and, are not based upon any personal experiences or facts.

well you would know if you read the post! It would appear that the tyre manufacturers are in agreement with my views, but as i stated in a previous post you seem to know better. It is my personal experience that they are useless in STANDING water especially on night stages when it is nigh on impossible to see when wet surface becomes standing water

 

[racer]

well you would know if you read the post! It would appear that the tyre manufacturers are in agreement with my views, but as i stated in a previous post you seem to know better. It is my personal experience that they are useless in STANDING water especially on night stages when it is nigh on impossible to see when wet surface becomes standing water.

Then simply use the appropriate tyre for the conditions, or if you find yourself on the wrong tyre when conditions change adjust your driving style
to compensate.
I'll ask you again to justify your statement below.

there are also discussions going on to make 'improved' sports tyres i.e. Toyo r888, yoko ao48 etc illegal for road use. i personally agree with this because this type of tyre and standing water is an instant recipe for aquaplaning and chucking the car off the road.

Why should these tyres be banned for road use? Why would tyre manufactures agree with you that this was a good idea when it would impact there sales and would spoil the fun for of thousands of racers and track day lovers up and down the country.
So WHY?

 

[amocrace]

so why do i have to justify my PERSONAL opinion to you? it is based on my experience. whilst at a circuit it is easy to make a tyre choice 15 minutes before a race it is frequently a gamble to make a tyre choice with sevice 4 hours away on a rally. As the manufacturers admit they have poor aquaplaning resistance how do you justify your view that they are safe as on all weather, all temperature tyre when the manufacturers spend millions to develop them say otherwise.

 

[GTR-240Z]

I've had r888 on my car for a while now and have driven it in the wet including some pretty bad rainstorms where there was lots of standing water. I've always adjusted my speed and driving style to suit in those situations and the cars handling has been fine when driving in those conditions. Or perhaps I just have cat like reflexes and the driving skill of Stirling Moss but I seriously doubt it.

As for the red car posted at the start of this thread I think it’s alright it's not to my taste but at least he's built a zed to his personal style and desired spec and appears to be getting out there and enjoying it as opposed to nit picking other peoples cars on the internet.

 

[Mr.G]

As for the red car posted at the start of this thread I think it’s alright it's not to my taste but at least he's built a zed to his personal style and desired spec and appears to be getting out there and enjoying it as opposed to nit picking other peoples cars on the internet.

Well said that man!

 

[racer]

originally Posted by amocrace
so why do i have to justify my PERSONAL opinion to you?


Because to say these tyres should be made illegal is a slap in the face to me and, all the other track lovers including some on this Forum.
You still can’t offer an explanation for your PERSONAL opinion?

Perhaps I can offer you one. Let’s examine your post #26


Originally Posted by amocrace
race and rally on Toyo r888 and they will work in the wet, if at a reasonable temperature, but are horrendous in standing water. my impression of Bambi on ice cost me around £2000 when my speed and grip outweighed my talent. PERSONALLY would not dream of running on a road car in the UK.maybe fine in Arizona!


Ok so you’ve had an accident whilst racing. No shame in that I’ve had a few myself.
Is this the real reason you think they should be made illegal? Is the sting of the 2 grand repair job tainting your view?



Originally Posted by amocrace
As the manufacturers admit they have poor aquaplaning resistance how do you justify your view that they are safe as on all weather, all temperature tyre when the manufacturers spend millions to develop them say otherwise.

I can justify my view by the experiences that I and others on this forum have already explained to you.
If tyre manufacturers thought these tyres are dangerous for the road and should be made illegal as you do. Then they wouldn’t “spend millions to develop them” would they?

 

[datsfun]

Because to say these tyres should be made illegal is a slap in the face to me and, all the other track lovers including some on this Forum.?

Hang on, I dont think anyone suggested that they should be made illegal...illegal for road use, YES ! Why would it such a slap in the face for you and other fun seeking folk...they are trackday tyres and to be used on the track and not on your B roads or dual carraigeways ? Surely you drive to the limits at the event and thats where you need the tyres and not on public roads? If they are banned for road use, you can still have your fun ? Yes it may mean that you then have to trailer your car and not have the ability to drive to the event wearing these tyres but life isnt always fair

I can justify my view by the experiences that I and others on this forum have already explained to you.
If tyre manufacturers thought these tyres are dangerous for the road and should be made illegal as you do. Then they wouldn’t “spend millions to develop them” would they?

Sorry but I disagree...manufacturers will still spend millions irrespective of road use legality as Motorsport is an excellent platform for advertising your product. So seeing a car stickered with Yokohama and wearing Yoko tyres will certainly make an impression on a potential user/buyer next time he/she is looking for performance tyres.

Virtually every internet forum has debated about the legality and suitability of these tyres on the road. Surely that is a strong enough sign that fellow petrol heads are also unsure about the status and legality of the tyres .

My question still remains un-answered by the trackday tyre users - why dont performance tyre specialists who sell multiple brands ( so its not a question of promoting their own product) endorse or advocate using these tyres for fast road use with the occaisonal trackday thrown in ? I mean they are salesmen and so it would be in their interest to shift a trackday tyre compared to a performance one as margins would be much larger on the former? But when a reputable vendor who has been in the trade tells you " ok, I have given you the low down and its up to you if you want to bum around in these tyres on the road", the choice is entirely dependent on your appetite to risk.

When I have asked these retailers about their legality, some have said that Yes, the tyres are legal in cases where they are fitted as standard fitment ( eg lotus / Megane etc) but where they are retro fitted, they dont consider them to be legal for road use and then its you Vs the plod/VOSA if you happen to be stopped.

confused...

 

[SeanDezart]

R888s are road legal - they should stay road legal : you want to ban something - ban EVERY vehicle including m-bikes that are capable of exceeding YOUR max. speed limit or shut the f up !

Or know that even by changing a 240Zs' tyres from 175 to 195 makes the car illegal over here...never mind about the 3x dozen extra hamsters pushing that camshaft around.....

C'mon guys move on and be less boring.