new member from north west

mikew

Forum User
Hi,

New to the forum and still having a poke around the place.

Just bought a 72 240z rhd that needs a lot of work.

Still in 2 minds as what to do with her.

I had thought of doing a rb26 conversion and that was my original plan after looking at 240s over the pond but it seems they dont have the dvla and their radically altered vehicle section which i really should of researched before buying but ah well.

My options are now,

1. rb26 swap and try to keep original identity
2. standard resto
3. sell as is

Again not entirely sure what to do.

But a Hi for now will do so Hi all :thumbs:


Mike
 

260Z TT

Club Member
Hi Mike.
I am in Warrington if I can be of any assistance to you. A couple of local RB conversions in the North West too if they can be of help ! Good luck !

Mark
 

RIDDLER

Well-Known Forum User
Hi Mike - I would say keep the car original! Nicely restored 240s fetch a fortune. I have a very original 260Z which you are welcome to look over if you wish. I am in Stockport. Rob
 

Rob Gaskin

Treasurer
Staff member
Site Administrator
Hi Mike, was it on ebay last week (reg LPC...).

If so there is a lot of work without a major mechanical transplant.

One of your options was to sell - have you got reservations about your car now?

Rob
 

richiep

Club Member
Hi Mike,

I don't think the radically altered vehicle section has any relevance to doing something like an RB swap. I'm sure those that have done engine swaps can chime in and confirm that. You certainly won't need an IVA test or any of that **** and it will keep it's original identity. The changes aren't that radical at all.

Before getting that far though, there are some things you need to consider:
What are you hoping to achieve with the swap, I.e. what will you be doing with the car? Is it really necessary? People seem to fall for the idea of big engine swaps without actually having driven a standard (or beefed up resto-modded) Z. A well sorted L-series engined car is pretty potent in itself with fully usable horsepower...

More importantly, what is the state of the shell and panels? You say it needs a lot of work - precisely what? Pictures are useful here! Because there's no point getting ahead of oneself and thinking at XXXbhp engine swaps if the shell is in a state. That should be the primary focus as it is where the costs and effort really stack up with these cars. A variety of panels are still available but some crucial ones are not or very rare. Rust in areas such as the inner wings, rear quarters, etc., can be problematic and costly.

Some things to think about anyway. The more info you can share here, the more people can help! :) there are a number of us in the north west who can help directly.

Just seen Rob's message while typing this. If it is the car from eBay, you have a lot of work to deal with. Tread carefully. Paragraph 2 x10.
 

mikew

Forum User
Thanks for the replies guy!

I will be honest, i first saw a 240z 2 weeks ago on a saturday, im only 27 so not a car that i would remember.

It was on facebook it was grey with 2 stripes down it and i fell in love. Ive already got 2 projects im "supposed" to be doing first so i wasnt intending on buying a 240z until after they were complete.
However, me being the impatient type began to search on all over the internet for one to see what they were going for and to my suprise there are very little of these cars about especially in RHD.

So this was my plan, a pre 73 240z RHD not fussed what condition it is in as i can pay to have work done and do some myself.
I saved a search late that night on ebay iphone app and sunday morning one popped up.

By sunday night i had spoke to the owner and then had overnight to make my decision.
Monday morning i paid a deposit and i collected the car yesterday.

I have not looked over the car properly but i am told there is 1 patch of welding on the bullkhead that i have seen and is not bad at all. There other is part of the chassis leg subframe mount needs to be welded back on.
Other than that it is all bodywork, it is currently caked in filler dust from where it has been parked since 1996 and makes the car look very shabby.

My reservations if you look on the dvla website are the radically altered vehicle section were it states a points system.

My intention was rb26 + running gear, power steering, coilovers and the widearch kit i saw on the grey one (not the ridiculous wide arch kit, the flared type)

Here is the points system from the radically altered vehicle section - you need 8 points to retain original I.D

Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1

I cannot do my original plan and hit 8 points

Im gonna try and put up a pic of the car, for some reason i cannot find an edit button on this forum ??

Cheers for all the replies so quickly, you seem a great bunch. Im in wigan by the way.

Mike

 

morbias

Well-Known Forum User
The DVLA guidelines are ridiculously vague for the most part, according to the guidelines even a restored vehicle is not allowed the original license plate if it uses new or repro parts - which is pretty much every car ever restored! Other guys who have done engine swaps and whatnot will probably have insight into the points system but it appears that as far as the DVLA website is concerned we should all be driving around on Q plates or age related plates according to the newest part installed on the vehicle, it's a total nonsense system we have in this country.
 

datsfun

Club Member
My reservations if you look on the dvla website are the radically altered vehicle section were it states a points system.

My intention was rb26 + running gear, power steering, coilovers and the widearch kit i saw on the grey one (not the ridiculous wide arch kit, the flared type)

Here is the points system from the radically altered vehicle section - you need 8 points to retain original I.D

Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1

I cannot do my original plan and hit 8 points

/IMG][/URL]

My 10p worth...look at the rules very carefully and build your car around them. At the moment, there is confusion and not a lot of scrutiny but when they get their act together it may be too late as you may have already radically altered the original car. To give you an example, I heard that the escort boys who were previously chopping of the transtunnel to accommodate bigger gearboxes behind the cossie lump now have to think carefully.

I appreciate that unless you are an anorak or serious petrol head of a cop, you are unlikely to spot if the rear axle is factory or a swap from a Z31 etc but VOSA will impound cars and take their time identifying upgrades. But if you build around the above system, then no need to panic about the points system.

Great car BTW.:thumbs:
 

datsfun

Club Member
Hi,



My options are now,

1. rb26 swap and try to keep original identity
2. standard resto
3. sell as is


But a Hi for now will do so Hi all :thumbs:


Mike

My vote would be in order of preference


3 - to me:smash:
2- period correct
1- lonely if you have to and 2 above doesn't deliver a fast enough car:eek:
 

richiep

Club Member
The eight points system is used primarily for kit cars and is a poorly defined, impractical pile **** in general. If it was applied rigidly, there would be loads of Zs (and millions of other restored and modified cars of all makes) running around on Q plates. There aren't.

You are overthinking it IMO.
 

datsfun

Club Member
The eight points system is used primarily for kit cars and is a poorly defined, impractical pile **** in general. If it was applied rigidly, there would be loads of Zs (and millions of other restored and modified cars of all makes) running around on Q plates. There aren't.

You are overthinking it IMO.

Disagree. There have been discussions on all other modified classic car forums like retro rides etc. The smarter builders are now looking at these rules very carefully when drafting their modifications and quite a few of these checks are now incorporated into the new MOT rules. If I was spending my cash building a hybrid I would definitely look very carefully at the rules.

Like I said ^^^ the fact that VOSA are not up to speed doesn't mean that they will not catch up one day:thumbs:
 

richiep

Club Member
Fair enough. I have no intention of building a hybrid so not my problem! :D But the fact is many existing cars would fall foul of this if it was applied rigidly and unimaginatively. As yet, it hasn't. the discussions on retro rides and other places have also deviated off into hyperbole and there has been a degree of hysteria and misinformation about the topic. That's not to say that people shouldn't try to keep informed and be vigilant about what the bureaucrats get up to, but the sky has yet to fall in...
 

datsfun

Club Member
I don't have any aspirations of building a hybrid either! But OP is considering stuffing a RB26 and hence should give it some cosideration. I agree that there isn't concensus and the modifying community is confused as to the appliaction of the points system. But there is no smoke without fire !...
 

mikew

Forum User
Again thanks for all the replies. I have all original parts apart from inlet manifold and carbs. The engine if its original and has matching numbers which is making it hard to decide.

The points system has got me worried though, thats the only thing putting me off. I dont want to spend £0000s on a car for its identity to be called into question if im unlucky.

The point of the car or doing a 240z is because i love the look of them, i also own a 500bhp evo so the power thing also comes into it and knowing an rb26 drops in well makes a pretty cool "sleeper"

The points system mentions axles, what are axles on a car? Driveshafts? These are worth 2 points.
On a landrover i know but on a car not so much. Isnt axle an american term?

I would also have to leave the steering alone to get 2 more points
Would an arch kit deem a modification to the chassis/bodyshell? If so this is worth 5 and i will never make 8 points.

I will take all opinions on board, does anyone have a valuation on cars done nicely with an rb motor? Or even a valuation for a standard restored
 

mikew

Forum User
Caught the post button then...

Standard restored valuation"
Valuation as is?

I cannot understand why there is no edit button on here?

Thanks
 

datsun dave

Club Member

Rules are rules would think that 70% of the Z club would be running a non standard engine and most are not registered as so on the log book or with the insurance company.

Would hate to see the men from VOSA turn up at a Z Club meeting as they would have a field day !!!!!.
 

datsfun

Club Member
Rules are rules would think that 70% of the Z club would be running a non standard engine and most are not registered as so on the log book or with the insurance company.

Would hate to see the men from VOSA turn up at a Z Club meeting as they would have a field day !!!!!.

But that wouldn't affect the 8 point rule as most will have swapped to a L28 which doesn't require changes to monocoque to fit etc. However if they have swapped over suspensions and axles then yes, possible cause for concern.

From an insurance point, yes deffo an issue if engine upgrades / swaps have not been declared. :smash:
 

richiep

Club Member
TBH, if VOSA turned up to any classic/sports car meet in this country, and were feeling particularly snotty, they'd have a field day... It's hardly likely though.

Is the average S30 owner these days likely to insure without declaring mods? FTR, mine are all declared (engine, brakes, etc., etc.). Makes zero difference to the premium.

On the altering the shell point, an RB swap shouldn't affect that either. It's a bolt in with the custom mounts. The only alteration would maybe take the form of strengthening via stitch welding etc. Is the average VOSA bellend going to notice that?

The OP mentions flared arches - I would've thought, if in the rare instance somebody made an issue of that, you could cite the fact that such arches were a factory option and available on some cars as standard (in Japan I know, but still).

Power steering, also mentioned: the typical power steering applications for Zs are conversions using the original Z column. So arguable retains the original part, albeit with additions.

Of course Dave, if the VOSA/DVLA got all hard-ass about this stuff, you'd be in trouble! :devil:
 
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