Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
They did have a lovely orange one for £35k which looked one of the best i've seen. Not sure how much profit there is in that price point though.
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MZR Sport-Edition
- Thread starter Mark N
- Start date
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
I think its a good idea to take ages with a rebuild, faff about loads, let life get in the way, have to put it on ice for a year or two. It was done like that by myself on purpose, so I can't even remember the cost. All part of the plan!
I know what the car cost and thats it.
"Times have moved on since then Rob" - yes at a hell of a pace, that was only about 2 years ago.
My point John was that those cars were nicely restored cars but these cars seem to have lots of money spent on cosmetics like mirrors, centre console, resiting handbrake, instruments, seats etc etc. So as far as I can assume that's where a lot of time and money goes. That was also why I was trying to ascertain the mechanical spec for £80k.
Anyway as usual I'm on a different 'wavelength' than most people.
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SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Rob - perhaps the price itself is an attractive 'option' ?
For those who want exclusivity and have the money to pay for it.
I wonder how much Andy Zhead was planing to spend ? I remember what JT paid at 4ways back in 1990.
But cost is relative to income, not market value : is £80k expensive to the type of clients for which they're aiming ?
For those who want exclusivity and have the money to pay for it.
I wonder how much Andy Zhead was planing to spend ? I remember what JT paid at 4ways back in 1990.
But cost is relative to income, not market value : is £80k expensive to the type of clients for which they're aiming ?
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
What about those who have been 'swindled' by so called 'marque experts'? how much has it ended up costing them?
you can't get away from the fact £80k is a chunk of cash. I'd go for a genuine G-nosed car and a well specced LHD car to go with it.
However I'd also like a 2.6 starion, z3m coupe, 105 junior, rally spec fulvia and my old 968 back so I might not be the best man to judge.
Sean, it's not the cost but what the money pays for. I would pay 80k for Kevin Bristow's ex works rally car because it's Datsun not modern bits.
Alphabettispaghetti
Club Member
Rob if you were valuing/buying a car, would you value one thats been period tuned over one thats tuned but using FI/TB and-or modern tuning parts?
johnymd
Club Member
I see an old rally car as very low in value because it's just a poor condition car that had a hard life. I see no value in the fact that it was owned and built by someone well known. It's like buying a painting because it was by someone famous. Overvalued because it by painted by someone. Or an old car that was owned by someone famous. Your not buying the car, your buying an object that was owned by someone and that's the only reason it's expensive. The MZR cars are expensive because of the attention to detail and the striving to take an iconic car and make it "better". The MZR cars of 2 years ago were very nice but not particularly special. They sold for what they were worth but I bet there was no profit in them. In order for MZR to move forward I feel they had to build something special in order to justify the price tag and make their company profitable.
These cars are not for everyone but they are special and way cheaper than the other classic specials out there.
These cars are not for everyone but they are special and way cheaper than the other classic specials out there.
How do you value your wife John against a young pretty girl who has a taste for the expensive life and is soooo modern but you have no memories/experiences with her?
I can understand some of what you are saying but how do you value anything old e.g a WW2 Spitfire with battlescars?
Does your blue car have any value apart from the fact it is blue and has a powerful engine? Does what you have done with it and your memories count for nothing?
I saw that ex Works rally car in 1971 and it made a huge impression - an MZR car cannot do that unless it is for looks alone.
In fact why do you own 240Zs instead of GTRs?
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johnymd
Club Member
My wife is special to ME. I can still like a pretty girl for her looks but looks are only a small part of why we settle down with someone.
Forth bridge is getting pretty old so scrap it and build another. I have no personal attachment with it.
My blue car has a high value to me because it was built and evolved entirely by Me. It also give me a lot of fun. The memories count for a lot. If I had bought the blue car already built by someone else then it would have far less value to me in just the same way the old rally car you mention would.
I would never buy a MZR car but admire the workmanship, as I do with many builds on here, and would love to build a similar car for myself.
Why do I own 240z's? I'm surprised you ask but I will tell you. It's because I love them so much and believe there is no better car around that suits me. A GTR is far too expensive for me to afford and I like a car I can build with my own personal touch rather than a car I can just go and buy.
I'm not trying to convince you to look at things my way Rob so don't take it personally. I'm just saying what I feel. We are all allowed to have our own views and the world would be rather boring if we all like the same thing.
Forth bridge is getting pretty old so scrap it and build another. I have no personal attachment with it.
My blue car has a high value to me because it was built and evolved entirely by Me. It also give me a lot of fun. The memories count for a lot. If I had bought the blue car already built by someone else then it would have far less value to me in just the same way the old rally car you mention would.
I would never buy a MZR car but admire the workmanship, as I do with many builds on here, and would love to build a similar car for myself.
Why do I own 240z's? I'm surprised you ask but I will tell you. It's because I love them so much and believe there is no better car around that suits me. A GTR is far too expensive for me to afford and I like a car I can build with my own personal touch rather than a car I can just go and buy.
I'm not trying to convince you to look at things my way Rob so don't take it personally. I'm just saying what I feel. We are all allowed to have our own views and the world would be rather boring if we all like the same thing.
uk66fastback
Club Member
A lot of it is the bespoke parts ... I think you could hopefully do some negotiation on what you wanted all over the car ... which might bring the price down. Unless they’re stacked out and snowed under with orders and deposits.
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
That probably says more about the quality of cars previous to these new ones.
I'm like John, I wouldn't pay more for one car over another just because someone famous once farted in it going through Eau Rouge.
If I'd wanted anything other than an underdog, under-valued, unknown and under-estimated, I wouldn't have bought and stuck with a 240Z for nearly 30 yrs.
A bit of value won't hurt us, encourage people to take better care of them and become something desirable !
How has my comment got twisted so much?
Secondly I don't think John understood exactly which car I was talking about i.e. car number 5 on the 1971 RAC Rally.
http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15145
SeanDezart
Well-Known Forum User
Great cars but I wouldn't pay 80k for Kevin's car (either of them) - to do what with ?
imho, a car has to have an end use....which is more than sitting in a vacuum bag waiting to raise in value.
Gotta drive Zs.
imho, a car has to have an end use....which is more than sitting in a vacuum bag waiting to raise in value.
Gotta drive Zs.
Albrecht
Well-Known Forum User
What you are writing now doesn't seem to match up with what I often experience from you. Very rarely does a week go by without you asking me some question or other about the Works rally or circuit racing cars, so I always assumed you had an interest in them - even if it was only vicariously. It seems you actually might not.
The figure of £80k GBP for Kevin Bristow's ex-Works '71 RAC Rally car is pure fantasy. Which corner of it will that buy? The last genuine ex-Works 240Z rally car to change hands - a car in need of total restoration - sold for way more than that. Based on what I know from people in Japan who would be interested in owning Kevin's RAC car - and that includes Nissan themselves - I'd put the value easily north of 250k GBP.
You ask "to do what?". WTF? Is this a question from a true car enthusiast? Do people ask the same question about the contents of art galleries and museums? There is a point where such items can become iconic and worthy of preservation, curation and display. It helps us to understand them better, and it helps us to better understand ourselves and the things we have done.
I could say, to do this:
....but it doesn't have to do anything of the sort. It can just be. Do you think places like this are meaningless?
Like it or not, old cars are subject to the same market forces of supply and demand as pretty much anything else. Genuine Fairlady Z432-Rs are changing hands in Japan for astronomical prices these days. I know of two 432-Rs that were recently restored to showroom condition, and the cost to restore each car in Japan would buy you two of the MZR 80k GBP cars. That's where we are at. I don't find it difficult to understand or particularly troubling, other than the fact that a genuine 432-R is now something I will never own because it is out of my financial reach.
Discussing the 'value' of the MZR cars vs their 'cost' is one thing, but bringing the value of pieces of automotive history into the equation is quite another.