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From Smoker to Ssssschmokin'!

Discussion in 'S30 (240Z,260Z,280Z) Engine' started by smileyinside, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    So gang, those of you unfortunate enough to follow me would attest to the lovely smell of 20W50 emanating from my z's rear end. The time has come to do something about it. Unfortunately personal circumstances dictate that I only get the odd hour or two here and there so this is gonna be slow. In fact it all started in the last summer.

    Been meaning to write this up for ages but no time, so doing it on my commute now.


    I was planning on rebuilding the original engine over a year or so but a kind gent sold me one of his "nice" L28 handiworks.

    I did a power run on the smokie L26 to have a baseline to satisfy my OCD and the NEEEEEEED to know. Which looked surprisingly progressive for an engine drinking a litre every 300-400 miles!

    [​IMG]


    Bought a light weight flywheel and ATI damper to go with.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    The SFI damper from MSA was unavailable but also there are some mixed reports on the net of them coming apart. I've learned a lot researching this and had no idea what a massively important component this is!

    http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/45275-harmonic-damper-problem/


    Clutch was a big question which many of you kindly helped me think about. Went for a 280zx Turbo 2+2 clutch as I don't want a heavy pedal but in theory something designed for the additional weight and power of the 2+2 turbo should cope with what the new engine and I throw at it. The car is mostly street driven with the odd track day, so no quarter mile abuse. Worst case I replace it for a performance one another time.

    Having the world's smallest garage which the PO originally built for his Mini back in the 70's, I needed to create some working space.

    The blue print ...


    [​IMG]

    The reality ...

    [​IMG]



    The neighbours texted my wife to say it looks like the forensics have arrived at ours!



    My good buddy and I then set about dismantling the engine bay and building the engine crane ...

    [​IMG]

    I think his white overalls added to the forensics effect well ;)

    [​IMG]


    Found some absolute horrors like a totally loose damper or the finger tight transmission bolts! Gulp!!!!!


    Just reached London Bridge, so next instalment to follow this eve.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
    Mission 240z likes this.
  2. Rob Gaskin

    Rob Gaskin Membership Secretary Staff Member Committee Member

    This will be interesting - keep the info. coming.
     
  3. Russell

    Russell
    Z Club Member

    This is going to be one of those small world type comments but which line do you get on?

    I regularly commute into London Bridge.
     
  4. SeanDezart

    SeanDezart
    Z Club Member
    Official Trader

    With what did you insulate your mini garage walls ? A mix of.....?

    Counting upon a rail strike to fast-forward the episodes.....o_O
     
    smileyinside likes this.
  5. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    Will do Rob.

    Russ - I get in from Oxted, so I consider myself to be a Southern (rail) Survivor! Maybe we should hook up for a swift drink and cheese at Borough Market one eve?

    Sean - well spotted! It's 25mm Celotex sheets and therma wrap bubble wrap on the pillars. Works an absolute treat - you may be able to see the world's smallest radiator in the photo which (combined with the insulation) keeps the garage super toasty!

    https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p16779

    https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk...igid-insulation-board-2-4m-x-1-2m-x-25mm.html
     
  6. franky

    franky
    Z Club Member

    It looks the same as mine in build. Get it in there.
     
  7. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    Quite! My balls and right foot are saying the same thing and with the longer days I am hoping to get it moving, been too long!!! Much like yours :p


    A word of warning: the Kameari bolt from MSA is just too short for the ATI damper and a new one had to be made - I love PMAC's OCD in ensuring it even had the little divot at the end to resemble the Kameari item.

    [​IMG]

    The new damper is a bit of a beast!!!

    [​IMG]


    A great video on why we need dampers on our straight six cranks.



    With a lot of jiggling about and a call to PMAC we finally convinced the output shaft of the gearbox to say goodbye to it's old friend.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I know some don't like load levellers but it was brilliant for getting the engine at the correct angle to let go of the 'box.

    In the jiggling process I managed to bend the giant gasket to the transmission - thankfully I'm receiving a new one and this is nothing I can't sort out with a bit of tough love and a hammer ;)

    [​IMG]

    As an aside, I dropped my Makita drill from the top of the ladder while building my "forensics" tent - if you ever wondered what they look like inside, this is it ...[​IMG]

    Thankfully I had help on hand to test if I had fixed it right ...

    [​IMG]



    Found out why my headlights are so dull - defo not an original connector ;) not water tight, or any attempt made by the PO to protect it!

    [​IMG]


    The late Geoff had agreed that the work Fourways did on my head wasn't quite right, given it was smoking MUCH worse on the overrun than before the rebuild. Also dynamic compression went from the mid 180s to low 160PSI after the rebuild. He was going to take the car back and look at the head again himself. Sadly he died 2 weeks later and I really didn't want to go back without him there. I just didn't know where Fourways were going after his passing and didn't want my car in bits in their garage with an uncertain future.

    Having taken the head off, it was pretty obvious that she was still drinking oil down some valve stems. Also one of the headbolts wasn't torqued down sufficiently and you can see where the oil made it down. Bit disappointing after a £1200 (!!!) bill for a rebuilt head but I'll put it down to experience and move on.


    [​IMG]

    On the up side, looks like the mix was bob on - my friendly MOT guy let me use his emissions tester thing up the z's tail pipe to adjust carbs with for about 20 mins and at different RPMs. I defo don't have the hang of the colour tune gizmo yet!

    [​IMG]


    Spoke with the guys at Z Therapy and they confirmed that my carbs are sporting the SM needles which are man enough for the demands of a street / spiritedly driven L28 with a mild cam. I really don't want to go triples (yet!) but I may need to get the carbs a little more adjustment time with my MOT guy.

    And that's all for today folks - as you can tell train was pretty delayed - more to follow on Monday!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
    Jake RAH likes this.
  8. toopy

    toopy
    Z Club Member

    Looking good my friend, glad to see its progressing along nicely... for now! no doubt there will be a spanner in the works at some point..sod's law i believe :confused:

    Liking your style with the forensic tent garage extension... nice one :)

    and yes, that is the smallest radiator bar none i have ever seen :rofl:
     
    smileyinside likes this.
  9. jonbills

    jonbills
    Z Club Member

    Good work Ali.
     
  10. franky

    franky
    Z Club Member

    Its not a small radiator. Ali's mate is just massive.
     
  11. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

  12. Woody928

    Woody928
    Z Club Member

    Great project, really looking forward to reading this as it progresses :thumbs:

    I hadn't realised there was another city worker, I go through London Bridge 5 days a week so know that grind all too well!
     
    smileyinside likes this.
  13. Russell

    Russell
    Z Club Member

    We should all try to meet up for a drink one evening!
     
    Woody928 likes this.
  14. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    That's a great idea, I'll start a separate thread on that topic.
     
    Woody928 and Russell like this.
  15. franky

    franky
    Z Club Member

    I'll try and tie it in with one of my soho meeting days.
     
  16. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    So gang standing shoulder to shoulder with fellow commuters, let's see how far this instalment gets. A delicious Spring day that makes me want to rush home and rediscover the garage.

    As you all very well know: The problem of course with taking anything off the car is, I can now reach / deal with things I couldn't previously reach or see. So the scope creep was significant!

    I told my wife the forensics tent would be up for 5 weeks - but that was back in October -gulp! Want to be ready for Donnington or ideally early May to at least have a chance to run the engine in.

    I plan on relaying the headlamps and making my own wiring loom for it, didn't like some of the ready made stuff and I like to maintain as close to a stock look as poss. I plan to hide / protect the relays inside the mechanical regulator box. Does seem sacrilegious to destroy such a lovely bit of engineering and a part that no doubt will fetch very top dollar in the future for those who want a 100% "accurate" car.


    The good news is the new and old clutch are virtually identical in size. Had to measure to ensure I didn't need a different size clutch collar ...
    New:
    [​IMG]

    Old:
    [​IMG]

    I don't know if it's better to have fewer beefier springs or more lighter ones but the newer one has fewer ...

    [​IMG]


    Cleaned heat shield well but couldn't get into nooks and crannies. She didn't find out until the intensive cycle had finished ;)

    [​IMG]

    Came out really nicely!!

    [​IMG]


    As some of you know, the timing was VERY retarded for some crazy reason I won't go into but suffice it to say the "specialist" hadn't spotted / sorted it on services and tune ups. Poor Z was sporting some crazy high under the bonnet temps until I finally sorted it myself - no more overheating and misfiring in M25 traffic. That level of heat aged / burned off some of the paint work. See bottom right of this photo ....

    [​IMG]


    So down to bare metal we went, removed all the rust I could find, fillered up, rubbed away and triple under coated with 1K acid etch before top coating. Now the rest of the engine bay looks super tatty in comparison. ;)

    Problem is I had to cover up the metal / undercoat as the next instalment of time was 2 weeks away.

    [​IMG]

    The engine bay needs freshening up and now that I can get to "stuff" it's time to sort a few things out, rub away some surface rust etc. The problem is, where do you stop!?!?!? My heart just won't allow me to ignore surface rust however small but unless you dip the whole thing, how do you know you have removed all of it!?

    I don't have a photo of the fully undercoated finish. But suffice it to say I went through two rotary wire brushes just doing the radiator panel. The rest was rubbed down and wiped with alcohol before a rather sizeable dose of undercoat went on.

    [​IMG]

    Even with a proper face mask I was too light headed / head achy to want to get the phone out and take photos of undercoat.


    [​IMG]

    And this is where I ran out of paint! :( need to put another two coats on before lacquering.

    More to follow ....
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  17. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    So engine day arrived! I wasn't quite expecting it to fit in the boot of an estate but I was impressed that it did!

    [​IMG]

    One word of caution for anyone else considering the ATI racing damper: it has a 70mm pulley (as opposed to stock 150mm) to reduce drag but that means my 280zx alternator will spin too slowly to work effectively at idle.

    [​IMG]

    The damper options were this one, the BHJ but that has a small pulley also and even pricier, or the Kameari damper kit with the other two pulleys running a smaller fan belt section as coming in close to £800 imported.


    I briefly considered the time / hybridZ honoured 12si upgrade but just couldn't bring myself to put something from a yank tank onto my Z. The power curves were illuminating - esp how none of them do anything below 1000 spindle rpm.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Found an old school alt repair shop in Saaaf Landan!

    http://www.robsonandfrancisrewinds.co.uk/

    These guys deal with a lot of lorry and London bus alternators / I saw some truly gargantuan alts there that made mine look like a toy next to them.

    Had the alt rewound and uprated + bench tested. Now starts generating at 500 spindle RPMs with c.30-40A at 1k spindle RPMs, capable of constant 90A and peak 110A for short periods. Not cheap at £150 but hopefully worth it. Especially as even with a 280zx alt and idle at 850-900, the idle got rough with the lights on and less keen off the line at night.

    [​IMG]

    Oh and they made it shiny too with a respray!! Not to mention the perpetual motion like smooth bearings compared with the original item.

    Unfortunately they gave me a too narrow pulley but for under a fiver at HC Cargo I sourced the right size one with the correct PCD etc. So in theory, with a 62mm pulley (stock is 75mm) and 900rpm idle I should get 1k spindle RPM at the alternator.

    https://hc-cargo.co.uk/catalog/s/regular?term=Single groove v pulley


    I got a little geeky on the load calculations and decided to compare what would happen if I LED the easy to reach lights.

    [​IMG]

    Incidentally I appear to have a 21/5w brake/side and a 21w side light each side of the same cluster! I thought the latter was supposed to be 7w in old money. Can't find a 5w or 7W BAY 15 though. I'm wondering if this is putting additional load on wiring not necessarily designed for it!?

    I had an interesting incident on Alibaba (and yes I have been called that before!) which resulted in me getting a free set of these ...

    [​IMG]

    Not sure they would look quite right on a classic car but they are in my parts bin for another day. And I may yet be able to see the road at night. Will relay existing lights first and see if I still need to use the LEDs for brightness if not the load reduction. These are the next generation of what Mr. Skiddell is running but use about 25% less juice.

    So now it's time to upgrade the alternator wires which frankly can only be a good thing. Will keep original wiring and run in parallel separately fused beefier tinned cables directly to the battery terminals. The last thing I need after all this effort is a "car-b-q" (as coined by Franky)!

    The only question bugging me is will the water pump / fan spin fast enough? The ATi damper pulley is 70mm v stock 150mm.

    I do have a couple of 160F (71c) thermostats and a fan shroud. So will run those first then see how it goes, but tempted with this electric fan as a tandem pusher at the front.

    http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic15p/16-7052

    Should I be doing it now while I can get to things easily - as a back up regardless!? :s
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  18. jonbills

    jonbills
    Z Club Member

    I'm sure my Kameari crank damper was only about £350. I got just the damper and sorted out a belt to suit myself (11x820)
    If your damper is same sort of % smaller as mine, then your water pump will be fine. I can't remember the numbers but from memory, the water pump is spinning the same at my 1100 rpm idle as it would on a stock car at the 700 rpm idle.
     
  19. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    Excellent - good to know Jon!

    Other informed opinions were that if it was a problem the US forums would b full of chatter on it.

    I also called Datsun Spirit who use the same damper on their cars in Virginia and they weren't aware of any issues, so here's hoping.

    https://datsunspirit.com/white-z-feature/

    BTW, that white Z is a beastie!
    [​IMG]

    This was what I was looking at for the Kameari option which works out at c.£500+ delivery+ import duties of 30% so gets close to £800 :(

    https://www.rhdjapan.com/kameari-l-type-super-racing-damper-pulley-full-kit.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  20. smileyinside

    smileyinside
    ZClub Administrator
    Committee Member

    Note to self, never ever ever put cast aluminium into the dishwasher!!

    It REALLY upsets the wife, despite best pre-cleaning and degreasing efforts it makes the DW stink and dulls the whole thing.

    Bit on the left how it came out of DW, bit on the right, cleaned with alloy wheel cleaner and rubbed for 5 seconds ...

    [​IMG]

    We live and learn ;)
     

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