350Z - Relatively Speaking

Gio

Well-Known Forum User
OK guys and gals, here's a Friday evening thought. I did look at the 350Z specific forum but this q didn't seem to quite fit.

Apologies in advance but at least I won't annoy any 350Z owners.

At the time of their sales as new cars, the 240Z and 260Z were "real" sports cars. They were evaluated up against E-types and similar focused machinery. They blew the "standard" sports cars like MGs and Spits into the weeds (sorry - as an ex MGOC member).

The 280ZX and 300ZX (Z31) were aimed at US heartland and were mentioned in the same breath as Corvettes and so on.

(I paraphrase as I am no expert and bow, in advance, to club experts)

When the Z32 came along, it was a European supercar showing that the Japanese, too, could make high-performance, high-tech grand tourers in the grand manner. But reliable, fast, excellent handling etc etc (yes I'm biased, yes I've got one.)

So what's the 350Z for? To challenge the Audi TT? If so, who cares? (taking extreme position to encourage debate)

The high-tech showcase is, surely, the Skyline now? (Not my cuppa char but respect where due.)

My point for discussion is that in the past, the Zs and ZXs were marque-defining and class-defining or class-leading bits of automotive design. The 350Z just seems a bit "me-too" in a "me-too" ordinary sports coupe class.

I'm sure it will be a jolly good car and give loads of fun to load of people but is it as special as all the Zs up til now?

Discuss. Use ink on one side of the paper only. Via a pen, if possible.
 

JEZ 280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
Hi,
  In my opinion the 350Z is no more a derivative of the Audi TT than the 240Z was of the E-Type and MG.It doesn't seem to be a 'knock out' design, but may look better in the metal, on the street.
  The Japanese have never really been trend setters in car body design, but rather, very good blenders , taking the best (and worst?) of European and US designs and moulding them as their own.
It's very difficult to come up with an original looking design nowadays, although the Skyline concept and the new RX7 are certainly different!
JEZ <img src="http://www.zclub.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 

STEVE BURNS

Club Member
Being one of the three club members to actual see the 350 in the flesh in San Antonio in the summer it certainly looks far better than any of the photos show. I can't wait for it to appear on British roads for I believe that once it is seen in this country in the flesh peoples views of it will change to that of the motoring press , not that they know it all after all they were responsable for a lot of the bad press on the 280ZX when they reported that the "280ZX's body shape was of porcine flabiness" so now you know whats with the flying pig
 

Mr.F

Inactive
Surely the first and foremost point of the 350Z is that Nissan are showing that they have a heart and soul which cares about their heritage. The car is set to recapture the raw excitement generated by the 240Z and lost by subsequent models (I speak as a 280ZX fan and Z32 owner, but neither is as directed at the heart of the enthusiast as the original....).

The Audi TT and the Skyline have nothing whatsoever to do with Z comparisons. The former is only being mentioned due to a passing resemblance to a 350Z around the rear end and the latter (until the proposed new version) is a glorified saloon car (technically brilliant, fabulous to drive, a revalation in terms of handling, but a saloon car nevertheless. A 300ZX is sadly inferior by comparison, but it has the style that the majority seek).

A better target for the 350Z would be the lower end Porsches as was the case back in the early '70s. The direct Boxster comparison I saw predicts that the 350Z leaves it for dead in all but marque name.

Anyway, why are Z and ZX enthusiasts behaving like 240Z owners when they first saw the 280ZX? We'll be discussing whether they should be allowed into the Club next! Let's have some unity - even if you don't like and will never buy one (like I used to say with Z32s) at least give it your support. It is the latest progeny of your inheritance and lineage whichever Z or ZX you own and its existence can only be good for the rest of the Z models and for the future of the Club!
 

Gio

Well-Known Forum User
Mike - as ever you make many good points. And I agree with your last para wholeheartedly (I've owned 3 MG Maestros....).

Here's another stab at the topic.

I've never owned a 240 or 260 (yet) but it strikes me that when they were new, they could have been measured against Porsche's top model - the 911 at the time.

It just seems a little sad that now Nissan's best sports car doesn't get that comparison. Rather seen as against the lower-end Porsches.

In looks and spec it is certainly an excellent motor car. And I look forward to seeing one in the flesh and welcoming yet more Z owners. But is it in quite the same relative space as its predecessors?

(and, by the way, the next time anyone says in public that the 300ZX is sadly inferior, I shall have to ask them to step outside along with the author of a la recherce du temps perdu &#33<img src="http://www.zclub.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> (when I say "step outside" that's only because that's where we keep the booze)
 

JEZ 280ZX

Well-Known Forum User
Does anyone "LOVE" the looks of the 350z, or merely admire them?
When I saw my first 280ZX on a Garage forecourt, I had to have one and did within a couple of years (1986).The 300ZX z31 didn't have the same effect on me, although i've since owned a couple since.
The 300Zx Z32 knocked me out when i first saw one in the metal, on a Birmingham street in 1990! I wanted one!!, although it took me 10 years to achieve my dream! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zclub.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
JEZ
 

STEVE BURNS

Club Member
do you fall in love with photos or do you need the real thing?as one of the few from the UK to have seen the real thing if I was in the market for a new sports car I would be buying one. IMHO in a years time when they arrive over here there will be love affairs all over the country
 

zedhead260

Well-Known Forum User
From what I've seen in the press, I think the 350Z looks good. In paticular I like the rear quarter shot. Not so convinced about the front end, I'll wait until I see one for real before I decide, but I think it looks softer than the concept due to the smaller air intake. I'll still be popping down to my local Nissan dealer for a test drive as soon as they are over here. Not that I have the money for it, but how could they not take me seriously when I pull up in my gleaming 260Z.
I don't think it's Nissan's version of Audi's TT. The original concept was around before we saw the TT. They are just filling a whole in their production line up left by the Z32. I read that they did look at the TT in their final design study, but the TT has been a very successful car and it is reasonable that Nissan want that same success.
Porsche's 911 has moved on so much in the last 30 years. Thats what three decades of constant development does. Porsche has filled their "entry level" production whole with the Boxster, so 350Z v Boxster S is a much fairer comparison.
If you want a 911 beater, consider that the new Z shares the same platform and basic engine as the new Skyline concept, then one day we may see a 4wd twin turbo 350Z ( 400ZTT ? )
 

Mr.F

Inactive
Dream on Rob - this is the first time in the relative histories of the Z/ZX and Skyline that the design and engineering teams have even acknowledged the others existence. Wouldn't a &nbsp;GT-R engineered Z32 have made a great car? I don't think that the two teams even talked over coffee during the 1989 to 2000 period.......
 

zedhead260

Well-Known Forum User
I absolutely agree that a GTR engineered Z32 would have made a great car. But, like you say, it would never have happened because of the rival factions inside the Nissan camp. And besides, Nissan obviously never got to grips with the term "platform sharing", which probably goes some way to explain why they ended up 30 billion pounds in the red (but don't quote me on that figure).
Now that Renault are controling the purse strings, things are changing. Skyline engineer meets Z engineer and is forced to bury the hatchet (or should that be samuri Sword). They swap ideas, share platforms and work from the same engine design.
Yes, the 350Z is a "back to its roots" sports car - ie, affordable like the 240Z. But there are still all those original Z32 owners out there, willing to pay the £40k+ for something with a little extra. That market hasn't gone away, they just went to other manufacturers because the Skyline wasn't for them. I'm sure that even Renualt would see the potential, even if numbers were limited, just so they could show off.
You doubt that boring old Renault would have the flair to do such a thing ? Well who else would stick a 3 litre V6 in the back of their favorite hatchback, just because they could ?
A dream ? maybe. But a realistic one if concept Skyline hits the streets.
My other dream (and this time I really am dreaming) is to homologate a 4 cylinder turbo Z with 4WD. WRC anyone ?
 

Gio

Well-Known Forum User
I was doing some research (on spoilers) and flicking through that estimable publication (obtainable from our very own club shop) 300ZX - The Enthusiasts Companion and the following points caught my eye:

- Using the Skyline GT-R 4wd was considered but rejected because of a) weight and b) it would have raised the bonnet height by at least 2 inches.

- in 1985 / 1990, the 300ZX was considered to be "Nissan's technological flagship".

Considering today's relative positions of the Skyline and the 350Z, is that still the case? Probably not.

In 1990, in the UK the ZX was the most expensive and the fastest Japanese car ever offered.

And Motor Trend awarded it the Import Car of the Year (beating the Merc 500SL, Mazda MX-5, Lexus LS400 etc). And they said "Dollar for dollar, the 300ZX is the best damn sports car in the world."

That's a tough legacy to live up to...
 

john-boy

Well-Known Forum User
Just thought I'd like to add my two penneth here ...

I have been staring at the 350 for about 3 weeks on and off, since I installed the 350z screensaver on my PC at work, and I have to say .... I do love it! The looks have definitely grown on me, and if it looks as good in the flesh as Steve has hinted at in his posts, then I'll be really impressed. Personally, I can't wait to see them appear in the UK, I think it's high time that Nissan wheeled out something eligible to fill the gap left by the cessation of Z32 sales. I agree with others here, in that I too admire Skylines for their technical prowess and fantastic performance, but they're not sports cars/GTs in the same way as the Z32, but much more akin to homolgation specials like EVO VIs. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to own one though).

As far as the comparisons with the TT and the Boxster go; I'd have to take issue with this. Having driven both a TT 225 and a Boxster S (courtesy of a good mate), I have to say that they're both fine cars, but ... they don't compare in performance to my Z32 manual. I'd expect the six-speed 350 to offer a similar performance level, as I've heard a figure of 287 bhp quoted. In fact, the Porsche is close (ish), but the TT fairly unimpressive in comparison. Different class.

Besides the performance comparison, I'd take issue with the styling comparison too. Just because the TT was a really fresh design, and the 350 shares some of the same overtones, it's natural to make the association, but it doesn't make them direct competition. Besides, I'm sure we'll see plenty more new sports cars sharing this format in the not too distant (e.g. new Lexus 430 coupe). So, I think we should forget about the TT comparison, it doesn't hold water.

I've got to admit that I've been obsessed with the idea of a new Z ever since the first rumours/pictures of the concept car appeared, and now I'm really keen to get my hands on one. As an aside, I've just had an e-mail from Prospec Motorsport, informing me that the OTR price for a ST 350z is actually 33.9k, imported fresh from Japan. I'm sorely tempted, but I do need to see one in the flesh first, before trying to assemble the cash!!

In short (not my forte), I think that the 350 will definitely carry on the Z tradition; it's a landmark model, like the 240 and z32 were, as they were really radical departures on their predecessors. I don't mean to denigrate any of the other Zs (as I've also owned a 260 and 280), but they didn't shock and surprise in the same way.

Forget about TTs ... 1.8 versus 3.5 litres No Comparison! <img src="http://www.zclub.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 

Mr.F

Inactive
One thing to consider when making our Skyline comparisons: the Z and ZX have always been "world" models for Nissan, but the Skyline has a very resricted market. It was never offered in the USA and the UK only got a limited number of "official" UK models from the R33 onwards. Thus for most markets the 300ZX would have been a "technological flagship" from 1985 through 1990 and beyond where the Skyline was (and in some cases still is) unknown.

Re. rejection of GT-R engineering in a 300ZX over a little 2" bulge in the front pants and a bit of weight - I could have stood for that! How many Z32 owners have already raised their bonnet line by more than that with add-on bonnet bulges and vents? Weight is overcome with horsepower and traction will always win the game.
 
Top